Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

elantan

See much as I can happily slate the SNP and pick up on things I disagree with ... I still believe they are the best we have, we need better, of that I have no doubt, but they are IMHO the best currently on offer, and that does worry me somewhat tbh

NICHOLAS_2

Why are you anti bombing syria elantan.

We are already bombing Iraq?

Not like it would make much difference, it certainly wont boost the number of bombings all that much.

If anything, us bombing in Syria (the RAF already fly over Syria anyway) would be more of a symbolic gesture to our Allies like Canada, Belgium and the mighty America who are already committing assets to the area. It will also show the many Arab countries, also bombing in Syria, that we have not left the region to rot in hell, politically speaking. As i say, any agreement of dropping bombs in Syria wont suddenly see 1000 bombs dropped in one day, it probably wont see the first bomb dropped for days if not weeks.

Although, someone wanting to rip up the UK doesn't much understand togetherness

You just want to point score.

You scots would have been begging for fracking if scotland broke away from the UK, your oil is worth a third of what that nationalist dictator salmon was hoping. You can't build an economy on worthless oil and whisky.

elantan

ermmm I'm anti bombing in Iraq as well ? kinda Anti bombing all together really,

Nah Scotland is very anti fracking, I think I understand where your issues are, you seem to think Scotland should think and behave the way you expect it to, it wont do that, it wont even do it the way the people of Scotland want it to so you have no chance...

Once again though people like yourself show great disrespect to things and people you dont understand ... I feel pity for you in weird way

.string.

There are a number of things I dislike about the SNP and a prime one is their inability to tell the Scottish People the truth. They misrepresented the state of the Scottish economy at the time of the referendum and continue to do so, The Scots would have been facing disaster had more of them fell for the promised Eutopia, and things have not got better for the independence case. Some Scots want independence regardless of such things but a great many do not, and they were deceived.

They also misrepresent the good faith of the UK government which is trying to give Scotland what was promised and agreed. It goes beyond political banter into rank deception.

I understand that the FFA/R was initially to be discussed in the Smith process but was withdrawn by the SNP (*). That being so, all their discussion there was in bad faith.

It is hardly surprising therefore that the SNP are not to be trusted. Day by day that is demonstrated, it's almost farcical.

I draw a parallel here with the Grexit, where a major problem was, and remains, the lack of trust that Europe's Governments have of the Greek Government. This is a very serious matter when trust is a necessity for financial support to be given.

Compare that situation with Scotland's situation should it become independent having a large structural deficit, a large national debt and an SNP Government which demonstrates daily that it is not a trustworthy political movement. They did, after all, threaten not to pay their debts.

Of course a new party can take over which is more trustworthy, but the SNP is dragging Scotland through the dirt and besmirching its previous good name.

So elanten, if you want to pursue a goal of independence, you need a party worthy of the cause, but not the SNP.

(*) I cannot be 100% sure of this for though I saw it claimed, cannot find a link at the moment.

skintmacflint

kabayiri wrote: »

I thought this was supposed to be a new wave of politics?

Referring to "Thatcherite policies" is hardly that is it Mhari.

Young Mhari wasn't even born when Mrs T was in power. I imagined she formed a good opinion of our first female PM by sitting listening to her parent's unbiased stories of what it was like under that evil Tory regime.

Blaming Thatcher *isn't* getting boring. It *became* boring a long time ago. Even dear old Tony Blair realised that.

My poor opinion of this young girl had improved , but her speech again made her sound like a blast from the past. Still about Labour leaving voters, blah blah, she's in the wrong party.

SNP are in control of things like housing, rents etc in Scotland, and SNP next year have the powers to create new top up welfare payments if they so desire.

Only problem being according to the Herald, a recent survation report revealed only 10% of Scottish people agree with our taxes being raised. So much for our more socially just mentality, ie: only when it's someone else paying the bill.

Nice dilemma for SNP to unravel. Never mind , much easier to take the easy route and continue their campaign of constitutional grievance of needing more powers in order to do nothing but dither about.

ruggedtoast

Sturgeon has fired an Exocet Mhairi at Cameron's Fox hunting Belgrano.

The Tories exclusion zone has proved totally inadequate.

And this metaphor has proved to be in very poor taste.

skintmacflint

elantan wrote: »

See much as I can happily slate the SNP and pick up on things I disagree with ... I still believe they are the best we have, we need better, of that I have no doubt, but they are IMHO the best currently on offer, and that does worry me somewhat tbh

But Elantan what should worry you more is the fact thousands of voters in Scotland who blindly followed and voted Labour for decades have simply switched to blindly following SNP. Look at the work Patrick Harvie had fending off SNP supporters anger at his tweet and article on how FFA with no monetary powers and a shared currency and the position of Greece a week or 2 ago. He was even called a Green Tory by one of them. Lol.

Any newly emerging party even with crowd funding stands little chance of ousting the SNP from power in an Independent Scotland for several decades. Just as it has taken SNP decades and the benevolence of the Weirs ( nice couple incidentally) There is zero chance of SNP relinquishing the power they have up here without an unbelievable fight, and they excel at spin and obfuscation. It's how they've managed to get this far.

It's why although I understand some of your ideals and the reasons for them, my experience of governemnt and people leads me to sadly believe it will never work out. No matter how many times and different ways it has been tried. It seems impossible for humans to have a balance in any situation.

Meanwhile with the exception of a few list MSPs , next year SNP will be in full control of Scotland to do as they please with no effective opposition The traditional political parties , are losing interest fast in Scotland and will consolidate their parties to appeal to a majority down South. They might not have been perfect, no political,party ever is, but at least they could keep some sort of check on the ruling party.

This seems like a pretty bleak outlook to me and I'm not alone in my age group to feel glad we are at the end of our years, and won't be around to witness what could come next. Unless something changes.

zagubov

elantan wrote: »

See much as I can happily slate the SNP and pick up on things I disagree with ... I still believe they are the best we have, we need better, of that I have no doubt, but they are IMHO the best currently on offer, and that does worry me somewhat tbh

If you're worried up there, I'd suggest you don't venture down here as you'll see some parties that'll really worry you. And there's only a flimsy figleaf of democratic mandate and no practical opposition :eek:

The SNP MPs look like ordinary honest common real human beings that have been drafted into parliament like some kind of governmental jury duty, and are taking thier roles seriously compared with the identikit blue/red/yellow-tie-wearing UK ciphers the London-based parties favour. :T

elantan

skintmacflint wrote: »

But Elantan what should worry you more is the fact thousands of voters in Scotland who blindly followed and voted Labour for decades have simply switched to blindly following SNP. Look at the work Patrick Harvie had fending off SNP supporters anger at his tweet and article on how FFA with no monetary powers and a shared currency and the position of Greece a week or 2 ago. He was even called a Green Tory by one of them. Lol.

Any newly emerging party even with crowd funding stands little chance of ousting the SNP from power in an Independent Scotland for several decades. Just as it has taken SNP decades and the benevolence of the Weirs ( nice couple incidentally) There is zero chance of SNP relinquishing the power they have up here without an unbelievable fight, and they excel at spin and obfuscation. It's how they've managed to get this far.

It's why although I understand some of your ideals and the reasons for them, my experience of governemnt and people leads me to sadly believe it will never work out. No matter how many times and different ways it has been tried. It seems impossible for humans to have a balance in any situation.

Meanwhile with the exception of a few list MSPs , next year SNP will be in full control of Scotland to do as they please with no effective opposition The traditional political parties , are losing interest fast in Scotland and will consolidate their parties to appeal to a majority down South. They might not have been perfect, no political,party ever is, but at least they could keep some sort of check on the ruling party.

This seems like a pretty bleak outlook to me and I'm not alone in my age group to feel glad we are at the end of our years, and won't be around to witness what could come next. Unless something changes.

I agree I so worry about this and have noticed there are factions within the SNP that are very different from the SNP of old, I do find it interesting how when these people were labour ( as inevitably a large portion of them were) this was never an issue but now that they have changed their loyalty to SNP they are suddenly a huge issue, these people havnt really changed, just the direction in which they follow has.

It will take a while for new parties to be formed and that does worry me, I want a more representative government, contrary to popular belief we do have Tories in Scotland and Greens and Socialists etc I would like them all proportionately represented, that doesnt stand a chance of happening until independence though. I have spoken to many SNP members and a fair few of them do say the SNP are a means to an end, they dont agree with all their policies and a lot of things about them but they see them as the best way to get independence.

I saw quite a bit of the Patrick Harvie stuff, and to me what he said made sense, I agreed with him, It appeared though that the zealots just jumped without thinking, that is boring and shows lack of intelligence IMHO. These people were labour people first, but over the years became apathetic to the way in which our country had been ran, they are now awake and angry, thing is a lot of them have just woken up and havnt quite landed on their feet yet and they think they know everything, it's very frustrating for those of us that have "done" politics for years, yes its brilliant people have became passionate but sometimes I despair at some of the behaviours, I sometimes reckon you could now call a mob to protest at the opening of a packet of crisps.

The SNP seem to be masters in NLP I have heard a few things Nicola said first hand and I have talked to friends about it ( who were also there), every single one of them heard it differently from me, they all heard the exact same thing, I had to go online and find the speech she made, and I had to play it back for them proving what I said was right and pointing out " look actually listen to what is being said, not what you want to hear"

One thing that concerns me deeply is people that I campaigned with have started on this zealous route, when I hear one of them say " Soar Alba" or " Albu Gu Brath" I cringe.... I really cringe and look at them and think " what happened to you?" When I hear them towing the party line and sounding like a zealot I shake my head. I was invited to a SNP gathering the other night, it was explained to me it was an opportunity to speak to a MP and ask questions ( kinda like an open surgery type thing) It wasnt, it was a branch meeting, yes the MP turned up and was very nice I cant fault the MP in anyway at all but it was very uncomfortable sitting there listening to a branch meeting, there was nothing secretive about it, it was very open but it was (for me) uncomfortable. I am not sure if my friend wanted me to join or not and this was a way to get me to ... but no I wont join, the more time goes on the more I feel uncomfortable about the SNP.

With all of that said I still honestly believe they are the best thing for the UK just now, not just Scotland, they are shaking politics up and making people think " what do I want my country to be" and that has to be good, people should be looking around them and atleast seeing if they like what they see instead of blindly going along in life and moaning but doing nothing.

We live in interesting times politically, alot of Scotland has woken up to whats going on locally nationally and globally, would be even more exciting if the rest of the UK did as well

elantan

zagubov wrote: »

If you're worried up there, I'd suggest you don't venture down here as you'll see some parties that'll really worry you. And there's only a flimsy figleaf of democratic mandate and no practical opposition :eek:

The SNP MPs look like ordinary honest common real human beings that have been drafted into parliament like some kind of governmental jury duty, and are taking thier roles seriously compared with the identikit blue/red/yellow-tie-wearing UK ciphers the London-based parties favour. :T

From my experience they are ordinary people that have had other jobs, the one I met the other night ( I should really start a bingo list) was down to earth, and wants to get on with the job at hand ... This may change obviously, but just now they all seem like they are there for the right reasons and have the right ideas