Bank Charges Test Case Article discussion

Former_MSE_Wendy

jadset. Please see the question in the news article called Q. Why was there a second hearing and what was the result? this should answer your question.

Basically it's the second part, the unfair contractual terms that are more important for consumers, than the penalty aspect covered in the articles you have mentioned.

We put all updates to the current situation in our news article so check there for any changes. Unfortunately there isn't much to report at the moment though.

You may also find the background section useful to see why the case is taking so long.

jadest

MSE_Wendy wrote: »

jadset. Please see the question in the news article called Q. Why was there a second hearing and what was the result? this should answer your question.

Basically it's the second part, the unfair contractual terms that are more important for consumers, than the penalty aspect covered in the articles you have mentioned.

We put all updates to the current situation in our news article so check there for any changes. Unfortunately there isn't much to report at the moment though.

You may also find the background section useful to see why the case is taking so long.

Hi Wendy thank you for reply, I can't make any sence of that ruling at all, goodness knows why they just can't write out judgements in simple terms.

I have put a claim in against Halifax for charge in the last year up till a month ago so I know its on hold now, but is worth persuing or does the last ruling mean the over the overdraft charges are now not unfair.... sorry for going on but just filed fform in about financial Hardship with bank to remove the stay and need to understand exatly what impact the last judgement means to fight case further.

Nathan_Spleen

A brief update on the test case:

The court have recently made a declaration that historical terms can be assessed for fairness under the UTCCR regulations and assuming the OFT declare them unfair and a further court case determines them as indeed unfair, this will form the legal basis on which all past charges can be reclaimed.

Justice Smith's declaration is here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/personal-current-accounts/Sealed-Order241008.pdf

The court also recently held the hearing on the banks' appeal to Justice Smith's judgment that current terms can be assessed for fairness under UTCCR. The judgment on the appeal will be handed down sometime within the next few months. At the appeal the 4 banks who's current terms were judged to be not in plain and intelligible language were granted leave to appeal but the appeal hearing is yet to be scheduled.

For anyone interested the transcripts of the appeal and the original hearing can be viewed here: http://legalbeagles.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=179 (I think you need to register but it's the same deal as here)

dogs3

I transferred money from my prepaid card to another prepaid card the banks
had a account and routing number for direct deposit but not for money transfers now they are holding my money for 10 business days I want to know why so long.

VIYANY

LLOYDS TSB
Q: After the April judgment was published, I read in the papers that the banks had lost – is this true?
A: No – it’s more complicated than that. The judge has ruled that unauthorised overdraft charges are not penalty charges. He also ruled however, that they are assessable for fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regulations. At the Case Management Conference on 22 May, the Banks were granted permission to appeal this decision.

Q: What will happen to customer complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges?
A: We will continue to suspend dealing with or resolving customer complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges while the test case is running. If you do complain about your unauthorised overdraft charges, we will write to tell you that we have received your complaint and that we will record it on your file. When a final decision is reached in the test case, we will contact you as soon as possible to tell you how we will resolve your complaint. We will apply the decision in the court case to all complaints we receive. A final decision will not be reached until the court decides whether or not our charges are fair. That issue has not been determined in the first stage of the test case.
Importantly, none of our customers who have raised concerns about unauthorised overdraft charges will be disadvantaged by this legal process.
Q: Why are the banks allowed to stop dealing with unauthorised overdraft charge complaints during the test case?
A: We applied to the Financial Services Authority (FSA) for a suspension of the normal timetable for dealing with unauthorised overdraft charge complaints. The FSA decided that in the circumstances, it was appropriate to grant us a suspension of our obligations under the FSA complaint handling rules whilst we seek legal certainty on this issue. The suspension is subject to a series of conditions designed to protect customers' rights. You can read the form of the FSA suspension (direction) here: www.fsa.gov.uk.
Q: I’ve recently requested copy statements as the start of making a complaint about bank charges. Can I still make a complaint?
A: We’re always happy to send copy statements on payment of our service fee. If you have requested them they should be sent to you within 40 days of payment of this fee. However, you should note that if you then write to make a complaint about your bank charges this will be treated as set out above.
Q: Can I make a court claim for a refund during the test case?
A: Yes, but we will apply to the court to put your case on hold while the test case is running. This is because the issues being raised in customer complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges are being considered in the test case.
Q: Can I complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service about my bank charges?
A: The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) has decided not to review complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges while the test case is running. If you do complain to FOS, you will receive a letter explaining this and letting you know what will happen.
Q: What if I have already been made an offer?
A: We will stand by any offer to settle a complaint or court claim that we have already made to our customers. If you have received an offer to settle from us which is still outstanding we will be writing to you again shortly. Our letter will explain that customers have two months to decide whether to refuse our offer and wait for the decision in the test case. If you do choose to refuse an offer, and return the settlement amount to us, your complaint will be held and recorded by us until there is a final decision in the test case. We will then contact you again as soon as possible to finally resolve your complaint.
Q: I have already accepted an offer from you. Will my complaint be revisited?
A: If we have made a 'full and final settlement' which you have accepted, we believe it unlikely you would be awarded a further sum even if the test case indicates you could have claimed a potentially larger amount. However, accepting any such settlement does not stop you from asking for repayment on any further new charges incurred if the court eventually finds they are unfair.
Q: You’ve rejected my complaint, what can I do now?
A: You may wish to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. However as set out above, the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) has decided not to review complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges while the test case is running. If you do complain to FOS, you will receive a letter explaining this.
In addition, you can also make a court claim for a refund during the test case. However we will be applying to the court to put your case on hold while the test case is running. This is because the issues being raised in customer complaints on unauthorised overdraft charges are being considered in the test case.
Q: How can you continue to charge what you do for these services when there is legal challenge?
A: We believe that our current account fees and charges are clear and represent a fair charge for a banking service that is valued by our customers. That is why we are working with the other major UK banks and the OFT to obtain certainty through legal proceedings, which we believe will clarify the law in this area.
Q: Does this test case and the suspension of unauthorised overdraft claims apply to my credit card complaint?
A: No this test case and the suspension applies only to complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges and the law which applies to them.
Q: Where can I find out more?
A: You can contact us by calling 0845 3 000 000.
Alternatively, you can find more information through the following links:

mumov4

Hi- Abbey did the same thing with me refunded as a goodwill gesture 3k but paid it to my mortgage account to clear the arrears this is what i intended to use it for anyway s good news for me! I got mad on wednesday, took action (plz email me for details!) and got the decision yesterday!

driver123_3

hi I wastrying to find out if it is right enough that if you are solely on benefits are banks allowed to take charges out of them? iwas on benefits for a long time through no fault of my own and the bank was some months taking hundreds of pounds off me for varios things albeit i am going back a few years but my other question is how long would i be able to go back in a case like that.

driver123_3

hi I wastrying to find out if it is right enough that if you are solely on benefits are banks allowed to take charges out of them? iwas on benefits for a long time through no fault of my own and the bank was some months taking hundreds of pounds off me for varios things albeit i am going back a few years but my other question is how long would i be able to go back in a case like that.[/quote]

Tozer

driver123 wrote: »

hi I wastrying to find out if it is right enough that if you are solely on benefits are banks allowed to take charges out of them? iwas on benefits for a long time through no fault of my own and the bank was some months taking hundreds of pounds off me for varios things albeit i am going back a few years but my other question is how long would i be able to go back in a case like that.

[/quote]

Yes they can. The bank cannot take a charge over (in the legal sense - like a mortgage) or an assignment of benefits.

You can claim back up to 6 years.

jeccius1

Quick recap; I've had a large loan and alot of overdraft history with HSBC and after various bad decisions on my part I was placed onto an IVA. 2 years in I have been placed into a position where I have to declare bankrupcy (my wife was made redundant, I became a dad and had to move home due to an unreliable landlord all at the same time but I digress), all of which tightened the purse strings a little bit too much to deal with.

I started chasing HSBC for approximately £2k about a year before the test case occured and got halfway through the proceedings before all of the above happened and this got put on the back-burner. By the time I started to chase it again it was a month before the case was due to happen and HSBC refused my last letter, stating that my signature was not the same as the one on their systems. I went straight to my local branch and re-signed the letter (the cashier even said mine on the letter and the one I'd signed was no different to the one on their system), but this set me back in their department by just enough days to put this on ice for the last year.

As of this week my IVA company have reached the decision that the only way forward for me at the moment is bankrupcy and have started to get the ball rolling on that. I'm not too sure exactly how long this will take and how it will effect my existing bank accounts etc, but that is something I'm looking into parrallel to this. I've contacted HSBC again under the good advice from this site and they reviewed it under the financial hardships terms. I advised them of my pending bankrupcy and they said that it doesn't count and pretty much cut me dead. According to your post, you say that the FSA July '08 advises that the minimum that the FSA consider to be the definition of financial hardship includes going into insolvency. How can I correctly use this to get this moving again?

Many thanks, JC (hope I've not posted this incorrectly, if so apols)

PS Keep up the good work