Strip club scam

tom----_3

Well, I've skipped most the thread and therefore the handful of poor, unhelpful and antagonising posts.

Yes, OP is a clown but we've all done things before when we've had one too many. ~£2.5k is no laughing matter, it's a sum that is larger than members of this board who have come here purely to rid themselves of it!

Burnz0, I hope you get something sorted but unfortunately how these places function allows for these things to happen.

In future it may be beneficial to open a second account and transfer money across prior to going out (edit - just seen it was an unplanned night!).

You also have a rather unfortunate username

derps

gazman100 wrote: »

Utter rubbish. No it isn't. Strip clubs may be expensive, and exploitative (of either workers or clientele - argument for elsewhere), but to suggest scamming cards for thousands of pounds is common place is outrageous. Ludicrous.

Burnz0 wrote: »

I don't think ive tried to deny that at any point so far have I?

I'm done with the delusion zone, goodnight!

Burnz0

from the FSA website. Sounds like the burden of proof therefore lies with the bank and not me:
Your bank

[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if: [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]



[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]

1. it can prove you authorised the transaction – though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password, card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or
2. it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently, or because you deliberately, or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction.

The bank

[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]
Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened, but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form. If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies, it may investigate before making a refund but must look into it as quickly as possible.

If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

SuperAllyB

jaydeeuk1 wrote: »

Not quite the same thing, but if a girl was incredibly drunk and didnt know what she was doing, and a bloke took advantage, she could claim rape and the bloke would be judged at fault, a la ched evans or whatever the chumps name is.


Still think you're an idiot taking your credit card though.

Not quite the same thing indeed. A drunk girl can be completely passive if being taken advantage of. The OP had the capacity to remember 2 different PINs.

I have enough bother remembering which PIN is which when i'm sober!

PeacefulWaters

Burnz0 wrote: »

from the FSA website. Sounds like the burden of proof therefore lies with the bank and not me:
Your bank

[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if: [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]



[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]

1. it can prove you authorised the transaction – though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password, card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or
2. it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently, or because you deliberately, or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction.

The bank

[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]
Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened, but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form. If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies, it may investigate before making a refund but must look into it as quickly as possible.

If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

You were there.

Your card was with you when you went in.

Your PIN was used.

Your card was with you when you left.

I'd say that the bank have got more than reasonable proof that you authorised the transactions.

If you're not happy with this, you have recourse to the FOS. I think they'll back the bank though.

See 94/9 http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/94/94.pdf

If you're still not happy, take them to court. I still think, on the balance of probabilities, you're stuffed.

chattychappy

Burnz0 wrote: »

from the FSA website. Sounds like the burden of proof therefore lies with the bank and not me:
Your bank

[FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans][FONT=Benton Sans,Benton Sans]may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if: [/FONT][/FONT]

Yep. Bear in mind what I said before - that in the case of credit tokens (CCs or debit cards when there is an overdraft), cardholder negligence doesn't get them off the hook. The banks like to say that you're liable regardless if a PIN was used, because either 1) you used it, or 2) you were negligent in allowing it to become known to somebody else. But in the case of 2), you're not liable. This makes it difficult for banks - because how can they prove it was 1) and not 2).

The FOS and or a court will look at all the factors (and the FOS has said that this is what they do in cases such as this. They do NOT simply conclude because a PIN was used, the cardholder must have made the transaction). There are two separate issues: 1) was the transaction authorised, and 2) was it due. If you authorised the transaction, but it wasn't due, then you would be due a refund from the establishment and, perhaps, the issuer. So looking at all the factors - the pattern of transaction attempts/fails/retries, and the amount of money that eventually was put through, the usual costs of products/services at this establishment, is it more than likely than not that this was legitimate?

Frankly I don't think anyone here can say if you will succeed or not. But it's got to be worth taking forward. If the bank/CC don't take your complaint seriously, then this will be in your favour in court or with the FOS. It is also quite possible you'll be offered some kind of deal to end the dispute.

jamesd

Armorica wrote: »

You used your card and entered your pin. They have CCTV evidence of you using your card. It's your responsiblity to check the amount when making payments.

You appear to have the mistaken impression that the amount shown on a till or card machine and seen by the customer is always going to be the same amount as the amount sent from the merchant to the payment processing company. There are at least two known frauds where this will not be so:

1. The use of a card reader linked to a different till where the card reader doesn't show the amount, so the customer can be authorising an amount shown on one till while the reader is authorising the amount on the second till.

2. Modified equipment that can show anything to the customer. Some of these types submit the transaction as signature-authenticated but that's not the case for all of them. The key problem here is that the card reader and till are both kept with the merchant so are always available for tampering.

We already know that the owners of the club have engaged in criminal activity courtesy of the prostitution case so it's hardly unlikely that there's other crime going on there.

brianposter

You could also try having a chat with the local trading standards officer.

planteria

derps wrote: »

Hey guys, I walked drunk into strip club, flashed the £300 cash I'd stuffed in my wallet and then after the girls offered to do things in exchange for more money and I authorised the transactions with my PIN, I got charged more money. This is outrageous! I'm so angry at everyone else but not myself because I'm not to blame for decisions I make or actions I take.

but if we believe and accept all that Burnz0 writes here, then his situation is very different to that. he has been defrauded. he has been stolen from. so i think, beyond the obvious 'be more careful and go somewhere nicer to spend your time and money', he needs a bit of help here, rather than condemnation.

C_Mababejive

It amazes me how these clip joints can continue to operate here in the UK in its so called great capital city. We have dodgy strip clubs, buy the girl a drink operations etc etc.

Seriously guys,,man up and dont give your money to Londons criminals, lazy w*hores and trafficked Eastern block girls. Thats what the dirty side of many of these businesses is all about.

Credit cards..well chip and pin may be there to protect you to some extent but it also protects the bank.

Maybe these dodgy clubs do swipe transactions and either dont use the chip and pin or just bluff it for a drunk punter?

Either way, if its a genuine chip and pin transaction,your pretty much stuffed. If its a swipe,well its wide open. Maybe they skimmed your card whilst they were at it ?

A creit card is as valuable as a block of gold but people leave them lying around or use them so casually because..well.it just looks like a bit of plastic.