Partner lying about debts

hkm23

I guess re his wife I can only go on what he told me and the physical scars he has. I will never really know. I am usually a good judge of character, and he certainly doesn't come across as the typical user I've known before.

I am the sort of person who likes to help and I could quite easily take over and sort things out for him but I realise this won't help him, nor me.

We've talked about moving in together but into a rented house. But not for at least a year. I would want the majority of all debts cleared before we did that. And if he ever did move into a house I owned it would be as a tenant with a rental agreement and he'd have his own room. That way I protect my equity if it goes wrong!

But we shall have to see what happens Saturday. I am seeing him briefly tomorrow and had thought of pre-warning him I want to talk on Saturday, and that I am expecting all cards on the table, but then I thought the element of surprise might be better :-)

in_need_of_direction

I'm sorry to be harsh but this is someone who is refusing to move on from his dead wife, is willing to put your livelihood at risk and is consistently lying to you while taking money from you. If this was happening to a friend of yours, what would your advice be?

bargainbetty

Your partner may be lying about his wife, he might not be. This is a subject you would probably never know the full truth of.

However, when it comes to his finances, he has lied, and you have proof. Personally, I would present him with what you have found, and state quite clearly that you looked for it because you were tired of feeling like you were being taken for a mug. Ask him to provide you with the court forms relating to the money you gave him, and show you how it was spent.

If the baliffs aren't coming to your home, then you have less right to ask this but I would ask him to tell you, with proof, of anything else you need to be aware of. If he is failing to pay fines, there are long term and serious repercussions and you don't need to surprised by further court action against him for failure to comply with the criminal procedures against him.

This is not about you having a lovely man that you want to support through a bad time. This is about a man having enough respect to be honest with you about what you are getting into with him. If he drops into sob stories and 'poor me' and tells you that he just can't deal with talking about it etc, or tries to make you feel bad for asking him, run like hell. Really, get up and walk out then and there. That is outright manipulation and a flat out confirmation that you are being used

I hope he breaks down in tears, and then brings everything out into the open so you can work together to fix it. Don't give him another damn penny either way - let him fix it himself, but emotionally support him doing it.

Good luck x

[Deleted User]

Please be guarded. I don't think you are at the stage where you see the negative effects this behaviour may have on yourself

hkm23

Well we had the talk today, he was definiely caught off guard and was quite uncomfortable, but that was understandable!
He claims he has no knowledge of the fine from July the bailiffs turned up about -and I can't remember if I opened the letter or if it was already open.
He reckons the court asked him when he went about the car tax issues from last year if wanted to include the CCJ in the payments, so he thought the ALLPay card was paying this off as well. He told me originally the CCJ was for council tax and water - now he says he meant car tax and water, but when he realised he'd told me the wrong thing he panicked and then decided not to admit it.
As for the arrest warrant letter, which I know he opened, he says he never got that either and short of going upstairs and dragging it out of the cupboard it's in I left that alone. Perhaps he didn't read it, or perhaps I am being naïve.
He says the council tax arrears have been taken out of his wages over the last 3 months- and the last payslip I saw was August so that should be easy fo him to prove to me.
I checked the number on the AllPay card and it doesn't match the 2 new fines, and as he claims to not have made any payments against them yet I can only assume there was only a small balance left on the card and the "over payment" then got allocated against the 2 new fines. But I also think I saw on his recent bank statement he has made a payment online to the court for £65 - but he maintains he paid £15 only as when he rang the court after the baliffs arrived they told him he needed to pay £315 - and I paid the other £300.
What I don't get is that he has got payment plan in place for the fine from Sept which I did know about - and he showed me the paperwork and the 1st payments isn't due yet, yet why when he rang the court didn't they ask him if he wanted to set up a plan for the July fine- which was outstanding? And if my £300 went mostly to the 2 new fines, why haven't the court split it equally between the two an not two odd amounts allocated each??
I did want him to log into his bank account and show me his payments but his PAYG package ran out yesterday and he claimed not to know where the latest bank statement was - although I knew where it was I didn't want to have to go and drag that out either.
I pointed out he hasn't paid of the CCJ yet for the water company- he said he had. I told him I knew he's had a water bill and it was still on there. He said he hadn't got it yet and it was due next month. I said "do you really want to do this - me tell you where it is" at which point he said " so you've been looking in my stuff" - which I admitted. I told him where it was and ironically he's had an updated bill from them this morning, which was in his bedroon, which he hadn't opened - which clearly showed the CCJ is on there. I know he has made two payments towards the bills since the CCJ but this I think still needs paying off separately. He says he will ring them and find out what he needs to do about this as he is now paying £75pm but this seems to be coming off the previous outstanding bills first rather than the CCJ- perhaps this is normal??
At this point he got quite upset and there was a lot of crying and him saying he felt even worse now that there was yet another fine to pay off and he couldn't go on and had had enough etc etc. I made it clear I will not hear such rubbish and saying such stuff is selfish. Again he told me to go and be with someone who deserved me, and he had nothing to offer me and was broken. It was sad to see.
I've told him I want him to do credit checks with experian, equifax and noodle and show me the results, which he agreed.
I gave him the courts email address and explained if he emailed them with my details I can then deal with them, but he says he needs to do this himself, but will show me all the emails.
I have made it very clear that if he has kept anything from me and it comes out later he knew about it today, then that will be it- I've said I feel he hasn't respected me by lying and I can't tolerate that. He apologised a lot.
He actually thanked me for trying to help him, and said that although he wished I hadn't snooped he appreciated why I felt I had to.
I am still processing todays events. The next week or so will show me if he has levelled with me fully. If he does what I asked and does the credit checks and shows me the court emails etc and bank statement then I will be happy.
Yes there are still things today, like the arrest letter he didn't admit to, and he was a bit hazy on dates, but having seen his "filing" system - a bag under the bed, it is possible, I suppose to not be 100% sure on things.
I have said I will offer all the support I can, but not money, and we talked about StepChange and a DRO - neither of which he knew about.
He says he loves me and wants a future with me, but at the moment feels he has nothing to offer me and has no idea why I want to be with him. I know he is low right now, but I hope he will feel better in the next couple of days that it's out in the open now.
Much as I also love him, if he doesn't follow up on his promises to me, then I will walk away.

Armorica

There is a different way of doing things.

Given his alledged past, then I'm not surprised if he is hiding things and is uncomfortable with confrontation.

While he says he wants to do things by himself - that must be true in financial terms, but doesn't need to be true in terms of the paperwork. You would both be happier in the long term if you sat down together and worked through his 'bag of papers' and opened new letters instead of ignoring them. You are clearly more organised and I suspect financial literate and could genuinely help provide administrative/organisational support without taking on his debts. You would benefit from all of it being less hidden. And it may be more comfortable for him if it is both of you working together, rather than you asking the questions and his struggling to know the answers because he's simply not on top of the facts. You shouldn't deal with the courts for him, but you can support him in dealing with them.

He needs to understand that hiding from the courts is the worst thing he can do.

I also wonder - although it may be reading between the lines - if he suffers from lack of confidence around you / is putting you up on a pedestal (and whether you are doing this yourself too). You mentioned you had debt yourself in the past - does he know this? Does he know how you got through it and dealt with it?

hkm23

I have said to him I am very good when it comes to financial matters - it was a promise I made to myself years ago when got into debt - and yes he knows all about my past and how bad it was for me. At the worst time I was literally counting every penny and lived on £10 a week for months on end. I couldn't even afford to buy a new bra and ended up going to work without for 6 months - but given I was the only female on an office full of men, unsurprisingly no one complained :rotfl:

In my job I frequently deal with courts anyway, so that is why I offered to do it, plus having tried to ring them this week from the "other side" I was shocked at how difficult they make it for someone to actually speak to someone about their fines - and I can't believe it's not possible to find out on line what you owe. The courts certainly don't make it easy for someone who has problems to sort them out! He only has a 10 minute window during work hours to make calls, and it took me 45 mins this week to get through to them myself, hence why I said to email them instead.

Possibly he does have lack of confidence around me. I am certainly the first person he's dated who has a professional career and I earn nearly double what h does, but that doesn't matter to me. I've told him all I need from him is love and honesty - I'm pretty low maintenance and I have no problem treating him to a meal etc now and again,although clearly he has issues accepting it, which he admits!

[Deleted User]

It sounds as though he is still lying to you eg the arrest warrant. I know his paperwork is in a bag but it proves he read it and who would forget a letter such as this?

I'd be asking myself if his emotions/remorse are genuine or is he being manipulative.

You are the most important person here so be guarded.

FBaby

OP, I cross all my fingers that he shows his commitment to sorting out his finances and his lying tendencies, but so far, he is showing every single signs of someone who is totally incapable of showing ability or willingness to deal with debts.

First it starts with the lies, then comes the long list of excuses that is always a result of things they supposedly have no control over 'I didn't receive the letter, I didn't know about that, they made a mistake, it's the banks fault etc...'. Then when they run out of what they think are plausible excuses and can't justify their actions any longer, they either turn angry or the tears.

Much as I also love him, if he doesn't follow up on his promises to me, then I will walk away.

I think you will need to be very strong and stick to this. You need to see actions and results, not just listen to promises. People who are deceitful have learnt for all their years how to use words to manipulate and are very skilled at it. They are rarely horrible people, just people who have fallen into a vicious circle of failling to get out of trouble and relying on lies and denial to get through it.

I really hope all your partner needs is someone to positively motivate him to take charge of his issues, but please keep your eyes opened.

patman99

I feel that he has come out of a violent and abusive marriage (albeit via the death of his wife) and has possibly not begun to start the grieving process yet. Hence why his behaviour is as it is.

I would suggest trying to talk to him regarding bereavement counsilling to see if it helps lift his mood and make it easier to help him with his finances.

Does he have a computer ?. If not, do you have a spare one you could set up with something such as YNAB for hime ?.

By using YNAB (or something similar), you can enter al his bank details along with each individual debt (as separate accounts). At least he can then see everything he owes and above all, see the debt decreasing as he makes payments.