MSE News: Petrol prices to fall again at three major supermarkets

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  • Trebor16Trebor16 Forumite
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    You describe Denmark as a high tax country but their rates of duty for unleaded and diesel are lower than the UK. Taking the figures from the EU which were published on the 1st July the rates are as follows:-


    UK


    unleaded = 67.4 cents per litre
    diesel = 67.4 cents per litre


    Denmark

    unleaded = 59.6 cents per litre
    diesel = 40.5 cents per litre


    A difference of 7.8 cents per litre for unleaded and a whopping 27.2 cents per litre for diesel. That is a price difference of 6.2 pence for unleaded and 21.6p for diesel.


    Another factor to take into account is the fall of the value of the Danish Krone against the pound in recent months which makes the prices in Denmark more competitive for us in the UK.


    You say the links I found are not accurate but they give an average. What I noticed in Denmark when I was there in 2012 was that the majority of petrol stations in Denmark were charging a lot more for fuel than the odd cheaper station, which were few and far between. So you might have seen the odd station with lower prices but the average price is much higher than what you have seen. I believe the prices in the links are an accurate reflection of the average price.
    "You should know not to believe everything in media & polls by now !"


    John539 2-12-14 Post 15030
  • edited 11 December 2014 at 9:00PM
    agarnettagarnett
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    edited 11 December 2014 at 9:00PM
    Not sure what you are trying to argue Trebor16, but if you are a thread spoiler then watch out, you'll be easily rumbled.

    Denmark is known as a high tax country. No one disputes it.

    I already explained that the fuel duty regime on diesel is not as opportunistic as in UK, or as onerous if you like, but I also explained that Denmark is generally still not known as a particularly cheap place to buy fuel. I have explained at length that there is usually not much incentive to fill up here if travelling south, and that still applies.

    Yet compared to UK right know, it most definitely is much cheaper than has been noticeable in previous years, and the reason is that they have aæways matched the price much more closely to wholesale price drops and we have had an unprecedented wholesale price drop recently.

    I accept that the tax differential on diesel is much greater than I had imagined. So often in the last few years I had simply assessed that the overall diesel price in Denmark was not worth filling up on any more than UK, but I admit that was probably because I would be passing through cheaper countries on the way home., so thanks for digging out the EU figures.

    The change in the Danish Krone versus the pound is not very significant on a one country to one country basis. For DKK read 0.134EUR. DKK is effectively pegged to the EUR at that rate within a tiny insignificant range, and has been for many years. So the effect of the GBP/EUR exchange rate having been easing up from 1.20/1.21 to 1.25/1.27 midpoint does make a difference to all Euro countries (including Denmark which does not use Euros but pegs its Krone to them.

    Without checking exactly I think GBP/EUR exchange rates (and therefore GBP/DKK) are more or less back where they last were in 2010 and are being artificially maintained by the usual suspects. AT the moment it is about 9.4DKK to 1GBP. That's not unusual in my experience and it has been as high as 9.5 very recently and down to around 9.3 I think, within the last two months. I think I can remember two periods over the past 15 years at 11+ Krones to the pound (again without checking). Correspondingly, the Euro rate went down so the pound got as high as about EUR1.50 did it not?

    FOREX between EUR (or DKK) v. GBP are probably a red herring.

    Relative EUR/USD and GBP/USD were probably more significant to describe clear fuel price differences.

    Your 2012 experience may well have been correct but it is not what I've been passing here every day here at the moment, and did you read my piece on what might constitute correctly weighted 'averages'? It matters not how OTT some fuel stations might be if no-one is buying from them and they are all buying from Asda or Ingo because they have a low price reputation.

    You and I might both be right in many ways, but the one thing that seems indisputeable is that the UK retail market does not respond with the wholesale markets and the DK market does, sometimes twice daily.

    The real question is why is there such a difference in responses to the indisputable continuous plummeting of wholesale price? UK =catatonic, DK=immediately and directly responsive according to my observations on the ground.
  • edited 11 December 2014 at 11:25PM
    agarnettagarnett
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    edited 11 December 2014 at 11:25PM
    Well in between last post and this just checked out four fuel stations:

    Cheapest diesel was probably Ingo (aka Jet) 8.69DKK=1.16EUR =~92p
    I think Q8 may have been 8.65DKK but even though they were open for business opposite Ingo, their sign was switched off and it wasn't clear on the pumps.
    There was another garage whose name I forgot to memorise (possibly Uno?) which was 8.79 and the last one tonight was at "OK" on 8.83DKK for diesel.
    95 Octane was as low as 9.69 at Ingo and as high as 10.07 at OK.
    I think I read it at 9.85 at Q8 and the unnamed one was again between Q8 and OK prices.

    In DKK, these are all lower than 2 nights ago, but as Trebor16 reminds us, FOREX may have played a part although I had thought that the value of the EUR (and therefore DKK) had reduced a bit the last couple of days against the pound.

    The point again is that the prices have gone down in the local price. That's five moves down in the past week alone.
    How many in the UK?

    Maybe ours doesn't move much because UK is where all the inter-relationships between oil price, precious metal price and currencies are fixed daily by a small group of banks? Perhaps UK is the centre of the commodity universe and GBP is the new petro-currency so the GBP price is the price that all other countries have to somehow muddle their local commodity prices to keep pace with? Not USA of course - we had to let their USD rise a bit against our GBP the last couple of weeks - fairs fair, and besides, it was their turn ;)

    Maybe this the beginning of a completely new British Empire where the whole world (not USA) dances to our tunes ? :rotfl:
  • edited 12 December 2014 at 11:29AM
    Trebor16Trebor16 Forumite
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    edited 12 December 2014 at 11:29AM
    Oh dear, describing me as a "thread spoiler". Not exactly a smart comment to make about someone attempting to put across a different point of view.

    Let's pick out a few highlights from your posts.

    Denmark is a high tax country which it is in certain areas of taxation, but not when it comes to fuel duty rates which are lower than the UK rates (much lower in the case of diesel).

    Let's look at the prices you have highlighted. You state that the lowest diesel price you saw was 8.69dkk which when compared to the tourist rate on the BBC website of 9.06 to the pound actually equals 96p per litre. Add the difference in duty between Denmark and the UK to that and you get a price of £1.176. That's only 2p per litre lower than the price at my local Asda.

    With unleaded at the lowest price you saw at 9.69dkk that equals £1.07 per litre. Add the 6.2p per litre difference in duty and you have a price of £1.132 against the price at Asda of £1.14.7, a difference of 1.5p per litre.

    I have compared prices against what I can find locally but if you go to www.petrolprices.com they list a low for unleaded of £1.139 and £1.189 for diesel, which closes the gap even more to 0.7p and 1.3p.

    You are using an exchange rate of 9.4kkk to the pound but that is not the tourist rate, which is a more realistic rate. This is currently 9.06. The highest the pound has been against the Euro in recent years is 1.4 to the pound, but that was way back in December 2007. By the summer of 2008 it had slipped to 1.25 and there was a point when it almost reached parity. Rates have climbed since then and this year have been around the 1.25 to 1.27 range.

    Just how is the Krone being pegged to the Euro when the exchange rates are at the mercy of the markets?

    In essence there is not much difference between the prices in Denmark and UK, and certainly not as much as you are claiming.
    "You should know not to believe everything in media & polls by now !"


    John539 2-12-14 Post 15030
  • HerzlosHerzlos Forumite
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    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
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    DJ_Mike wrote: »
    People on a tight budget might well care. Why shouldn't a website about saving money post about a national price drop that might... *gasp*... save people money?

    Because a 1p saving (only reported at supermarkets and not petrol stations) means the average car will only be able to save around 60p if they go in on fumes.
  • edited 12 December 2014 at 1:43PM
    agarnettagarnett
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    edited 12 December 2014 at 1:43PM
    I hear the rumbles I warned you about Trebor16.

    You clearly do not understand that Denmark is for all intents and purposes a country that chooses the EUR as a basis for its own currency. It is not allowed to float freely except within a tiny insignificant range (maybe 1%). So when I say 1DKK=0.134EUR I mean it. Look at any chart of DKK/EUR and read more about its ERM II peg here.

    You wish to introduce someone's idea of a typical tourist rate of exchange to knock the credibility of my reports. Why? I buy fuel using a Metrobank Mastercard. I get the Mastercard rate, (currently 9.449782 earlier today on 11/12/2014). And I pay no FOREX fee - doesn't any self-respecting fuel buyer, especially Danes in Denmark and Brits in UK? If I buy today at 8,69DKK it costs me less than 92p not your 96p and anyway, I have already said the comparative price is not the question. But I am right about the exchange rate and you are sadly barking up the wrong tree.

    If you do not wish to be considered a thread spoiler, concentrate on the main question please. Why do UK fuel retailers fail to respond directly to the plummeting of wholesale fuel prices on a daily basis or even on a weekly basis?
  • £1.127 from tomorrow for Asda petrol, third drop in a week.
  • edited 12 December 2014 at 2:49PM
    agarnettagarnett
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    edited 12 December 2014 at 2:49PM
    Thanks Oddball

    Have they finally been shamed into moving their fat numpsies ?

    Where is that, by the way? Does it show yet on petrolprices.com - ... ah tomorrow you say?

    So they are still clinging for another day at the old price even though they know enough about the wholesale price to announce the drop again in delayed-action style advance (like it was some kind of promotion)
  • All over the news sites
    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/business/news/asda-petrol-price-at-four-year-low-1.733642

    Asda's site
    http://your.asda.com/news-and-blogs/tis-the-season-to-be-merry-we-re-cutting-fuel-prices-again

    I've never found Petrol Prices to be that accurate and days behind. Was created for harvesting emails originally.
  • Trebor16Trebor16 Forumite
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    agarnett wrote: »
    I hear the rumbles I warned you about Trebor16.


    I'm a thread spoiler because I post a different viewpoint to you? That really is an illogical viewpoint.
    agarnett wrote:
    You clearly do not understand that Denmark is for all intents and purposes a country that chooses the EUR as a basis for its own currency.


    Now you take the route of belittling my comprehension. How juvenile.

    agarnett wrote:
    It is not allowed to float freely except within a tiny insignificant range (maybe 1%). So when I say 1DKK=0.134EUR I mean it. Look at any chart of DKK/EUR and read more about its ERM II peg here.


    Did you actually read the article about the ERM II peg? If you had you would have seen that the allowable float is plus or minus 15%, not the "maybe 1%" that you have quoted.

    agarnett wrote:
    You wish to introduce someone's idea of a typical tourist rate of exchange to knock the credibility of my reports. Why?


    Because those are the rates that are available to tourists when they travel abroad. The tourist rate I used came from the BBC. Are you suggesting that the BBC is not a credible source?



    agarnett wrote:
    I buy fuel using a Metrobank Mastercard. I get the Mastercard rate, (currently 9.449782 earlier today on 11/12/2014). And I pay no FOREX fee - doesn't any self-respecting fuel buyer, especially Danes in Denmark and Brits in UK? If I buy today at 8,69DKK it costs me less than 92p not your 96p and anyway, I have already said the comparative price is not the question. But I am right about the exchange rate and you are sadly barking up the wrong tree.


    You fail to mention the small print in the from the MasterCard site -"The displayed rates are derived from the buy and sell rates included in the MasterCard daily rate setting process and do not include any charges or markups applied by the Issuer."


    You did make me laugh with the "I am right" rant though :D
    agarnett wrote:
    If you do not wish to be considered a thread spoiler, concentrate on the main question please. Why do UK fuel retailers fail to respond directly to the plummeting of wholesale fuel prices on a daily basis or even on a weekly basis?


    Which roughly translated means "How dare you have the audacity to challenge me!". I think you need to grow up instead of acting like a petulant child and throwing unfounded accusations around when someone doesn't hold the same opinion as you.
    "You should know not to believe everything in media & polls by now !"


    John539 2-12-14 Post 15030
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