Should People move to other available seats if disabled seats are required on trains

Pollycat

JReacher1 wrote: »

You can't prebook on every train. Even if you can not every person knows exactly what time train they are going to be getting so it's impossibleto always book a disabled space on any train you ever get.

It may be the way I'm reading this but it sounds like a contradiction.
Either you can or you can't book seats on every train.
I've travelled on trains where you can't pre-book seats but I've only wanted to book a non-disabled seat.
Given the level of disability mentioned, I'd have thought that some serious thought & planning would need to go into a journey so I'd expect that, yes, they would know what train they were catching.
I'm speaking specifically about this incident, not generally.

JReacher1 wrote: »

It seems unlikely the OP would have vented unless they felt aggrieved by the 2 people's behaviour.

It doesn't seem unlikely to me after reading some of the vents on this board.
I don't actually think it's the OP who is venting.
It's Mr-let's-create-a-vendetta-on-Facebook who is venting.

JReacher1 wrote: »

On this board you are never going to get every side of every argument and as always people like to jump on and attack the OP.....

That's the downside of internet forums.
I'm not actually attacking the OP.
I've answered the question he posed below in the affirmative in my post #17.

MoneyMate wrote: »

If there is a genuine disabled person requiring disabled seats on the train ( Should able bodied people move ? ) :eek:

BrassicWoman

JReacher1 wrote: »

On this board you are never going to get every side of every argument and as always people like to jump on and attack the OP.....

I don't think asking for evidence before maligning people is attacking, it's just common sense.

If the evidence is forthcoming I will agree what the women did will wrong.

But I will NEVER agree with internet dogpiling. Because the real world should not resemble Lord of the Flies.

JReacher1

BrassicWoman wrote: »

I don't think asking for evidence before maligning people is attacking, it's just common sense.

If the evidence is forthcoming I will agree what the women did will wrong.

But I will NEVER agree with internet dogpiling. Because the real world should not resemble Lord of the Flies.

You have unreasonable expectations of the posts on this board. No vent will provide 100% evidence of wrongdoing. This in fact provides more than normal as there is a photo of two people appearing to refuse to move from a disabled seat.

Pollycat

Further to this post:

BrassicWoman wrote: »

you can pre book and also should pre book a porter to get the ramps out for a wheelchair. Who will also get you on board and settled in.

http://www.disabledpersons-railcard.co.uk/travelling-by-rail/arranging-assistance

Arranging Assistance

Rail services are now far more accessible than they were in the past and many disabled people are able to use the rail network without assistance.
We will always do our best to help disabled passengers that need assistance, but if you need help when travelling by rail, it is best to book assistance in advance so that we can ensure that any help you may need is provided.
In particular, we would recommend that you book assistance if you:

• Have a mobility or other disability that means you find getting on and off trains difficult;
• Are a wheelchair user (on most services you will need to use a boarding ramp and, on some services reserve a wheelchair space on the train service you wish to use);
• Are a mobility scooter user (there are restrictions on different train operators which need to be checked, a boarding ramp will be required and possibly a reservation for the space onboard).
• Have a sight impairment and need guiding around a station or help boarding and alighting from your train;
• Have difficulty walking long distances – at some stations we can provide a station wheelchair or, at some larger stations, access to an electric buggy.

We recommend that you book help 24 hours before you travel. This enables us to: give you as much information as possible before your travel; make alternative arrangements for you if the station is not step free or not staffed at the time you wish to travel; and ensure that there are enough staff for all the assistance requests at a station. Overall, this allows us to provide you with the best possible assistance on the day.
If you’re not sure and want to talk about how we can help you use rail services successfully please contact one of the following numbers.

Sounds like the most sensible way to go.
It would be interesting to know if the station that the disabled boy got on at was a staffed station.
If it was, and assistance had been pre-booked, maybe the porter would have ejected the 2 ladies from those seats.

Pollycat

JReacher1 wrote: »

You have unreasonable expectations of the posts on this board. No vent will provide 100% evidence of wrongdoing. This in fact provides more than normal as there is a photo of two people appearing to refuse to move from a disabled seat.

No there isn't.

There's a photo that shows 2 women sat in seats that are presumably disabled seats.

I can't see any evidence of those women 'appearing to refuse to move'.

JReacher1

Pollycat wrote: »

Further to this post:


http://www.disabledpersons-railcard.co.uk/travelling-by-rail/arranging-assistance

Sounds like the most sensible way to go.
It would be interesting to know if the station that the disabled boy got on at was a staffed station.
If it was, and assistance had been pre-booked, maybe the porter would have ejected the 2 ladies from those seats.

The disabled person appears to have got on the train without any issues. The vent was that two women wouldn't give up their seats for this disabled person. If a porter had ejected the two ladies then the vent was still valid as frankly it shouldn't be required for a porter to intervene.

You seem to be trying to put the blame on the carer for not prebooking which for me does not seem at all relevant. You obviously must be a bit more harsh than me and wouldn't give up a disabled seat if required unless it was prebooked!

JReacher1

Pollycat wrote: »

No there isn't.

There's a photo that shows 2 women sat in seats that are presumably disabled seats.

I can't see any evidence of those women 'appearing to refuse to move'.

It's balance of probability. It's unlikely that a photo would be taken of two people in a disabled seat who were about to move and then a fake thread set up about them.

It's certainly more evidence than the usual tripe you get on here.

Pollycat

JReacher1 wrote: »

The disabled person appears to have got on the train without any issues. The vent was that two women wouldn't give up their seats for this disabled person. If a porter had ejected the two ladies then the vent was still valid as frankly it shouldn't be required for a porter to intervene.

You seem to be trying to put the blame on the carer for not prebooking which for me does not seem at all relevant.

I'm well aware of what the vent was.
My point - which you appear to have missed - was that it could have been easier if assistance was pre-booked.
I agree it shouldn't have been necessary but if I were travelling with a disabled person, I would want to do everything in my power to make that journey as easy and stress-free for both us as I could.
And if that meant pre-booking assistance then I'd make sure I did it.

If you feel I'm trying to put the blame on the carer, then you're wrong. I'm just saying what I would have done and wondering why it wasn't done.
It may be as simple as a last-minute urgent journey - but it's highly unlikely we'll ever find out.

JReacher1 wrote: »

You obviously must be a bit more harsh than me and wouldn't give up a disabled seat if required unless it was prebooked!

If that's what you believe then you clearly haven't read my earlier post:

Pollycat wrote: »

I rarely travel on trains but I often uses buses.
There is an area specifically for wheelchair users (can be used for buggies if not required for wheelchair) that I quite often sit on especially if I'm not going far.
But - I always keep an eye open for people getting on who may require that area and will move before being asked.

Not many pre-booked seats on Stagecoach buses, mate.
I think that blows your theory out of the water.

JReacher1

Pollycat wrote: »

Not many pre-booked seats on Stagecoach buses, mate.
I think that blows your theory out of the water.

And can you prove this? You seem to insist on evidence to prove these two women were in the wrong and yet expect me to believe you wouldn't do the same?

In fact sitting in the disabled seat in the first place is out of order on a bus as I don't think it's really up to you to judge who is in need of that seat. If you were less lazy and walked a bit further to sit in a normal seat then anyone who needed that seat could just sit in it without having to pass your disabled test!

Pollycat

JReacher1 wrote: »

And can you prove this? You seem to insist on evidence to prove these two women were in the wrong and yet expect me to believe you wouldn't do the same?

In fact sitting in the disabled seat in the first place is out of order on a bus as I don't think it's really up to you to judge who is in need of that seat. If you were less lazy and walked a bit further to sit in a normal seat then anyone who needed that seat could just sit in it without having to pass your disabled test!

You really need to learn to read posts before jumping in with both feet.
There isn't a 'disabled test', you silly man. :rotfl:

It's not a disabled space, it's a space for a wheelchair user if required or for buggies if not required by a wheelchair user.
That means wheelchair users get first dibs on that space, then people with buggies then anyone else.

Although I'm sure you'll refuse to believe it, there are very few wheelchair users that use the buses I catch.
You obviously didn't spot the bit about buggies.

Pollycat wrote: »

I rarely travel on trains but I often uses buses.
There is an area specifically for wheelchair users (can be used for buggies if not required for wheelchair) that I quite often sit on especially if I'm not going far.
But - I always keep an eye open for people getting on who may require that area and will move before being asked.

I move for buggies, I move for people older than me, although they don't seem to like those seats as they are 'pull down'.

I prefer those seats as I generally shop with a trolley so it's handy for me if nobody else requires it.
Get it?
if nobody else requires it!

There is nothing on the sign on the bus that says 'this seat cannot be used by anyone who is not in a wheelchair'.

If it did say that, I wouldn't sit in it.

I assure you (although you'll probably refuse to believe it) that if there is someone waiting to get on the bus with a wheelchair, with a buggy or is older than me, I'll be further down the bus before they even get on, leaving those seats free.