Co-sleeping and overnights with NRP

Raspberry_beret

Ah, what a tough situation. I really feel for your partner and SD. I think the most important thing is to reestablish overnight stays. Obviously SDs mother should discuss things and not withhold contact at the slightest hint of an issue. However, since that seems unlikely to happen, in order to keep things on an even keel and ensure continued contact and keep SD happy at yours, in my opinion your partner should sleep in with his daughter, from 8.30 if necessary.

Maybe he could read a tablet/kindle with light till he's sleepy? Or watch TV/film on laptop (with headphones?). Or him and SD could put a film on a laptop and watch that till she falls asleep at which point he could keep watching (or put something on he wants to watch). I know it isn't ideal to "teach" SD to fall asleep watching TV but it could be a way of helping her learn to be alone at night (and could be switched to audiobooks later on). If she gets used to falling asleep with a film on, your partner can try a gradual withdrawal type method.

But basically, it is only one night a week so I think your partner should do whatever it takes to continue with the visits.

I'd text the mother (or whatever form of communication you know she'll at least receive) and say that you've decided SDs dad will sleep with her for overnight stays from now on. If the mother is still being awkward or doesn't reply, I'd reiterate that SD will have her Dad with her from the moment she goes to sleep till she wakes up and that you will go ahead with the court enforcement if necessary to reinstate the overnight stays.

I think it is possible (not certain, just possible) to have a different routine for one night a week. My son is only 2 but has a night a week at his Dads and he uses a totally different technique to get him to sleep (and he sleeps better for his Dad but that is another story!). It isn't confusing for DS, he just knows that at Daddy's house it is one way and at mummy's another way.

splishsplash

duchy wrote: »

It isn't easy to keep that balance-especially when new partners want a say too (I note things changed about the time the OP appeared on the scene) or the other parent starts going on about needing to consider them too-and you find yourself feeling that the child's needs aren't such a priority with them anymore.

Despite what some fathers may think - the life of a single mum (especially if you've previously had the other parent fully involved) isn't a bowl of cherries. You often have no respite- and are "on duty" 24 hours a day with no-one to realistically share the load. Even at work you are aware that the phone can ring at any time and it doesn't matter if you are in a meeting or doing something vital -there is no-one to call to say "Can you pick them up" no-one to share their sick days with, no-one to just bounce thoughts or worries off in the same way you can another parent. It is hard work - and most Dad's with the best will in the world can't fill that gap after a relationship breaks down. I think most Mums at one time or another grit their teeth when they've spent all day Sunday catching up on housework before Monday morning rolls around again whilst listening to how Daddy took them somewhere fun and did all the fun parent stuff and none of the discipline or mundane stuff that is so essential leaving little time to be "fun Mum"

Even if a split was the right thing for everyone - there are times it all grates and can cause resentment -and can cause a backlash.

My ex would offer to have our son more when I verbalized those kind of feelings - but realistically the only time he could have him was when I wasn't working so it didn't really solve anything as what I wanted wasn't more "me time" but more time to spend quality time with our son not even less. There's no easy solutions . Keeping in mind the RP isn't an ogre but another person also trying to do their best in less than ideal circumstances and trying to work as a team with someone they have relationship baggage with-is never easy and if communication breaks down try and see the other side to be able to get back to a working co-parenting communication point.

Often you simply don't want to -but need to !

If we're getting into personal histories rather than the issues in the OP, then I should probably mention I brought up my three children as a lone parent who worked full-time and ran a small business. My youngest child was two years old when we split, he's 17 now.
My children's father married again and had more children, so believe me when I say I'm well acquainted with all the issues involved.

Like many mothers, you and I probably recognize the importance of helping our children to deal with the change in their circumstances through no fault of their own, as well as the need to nurture a wholesome and complete relationship with both parents and new step-parents/partners.

However, many other mothers, like in the OP's case, remain angry and bitter and cannot distance themselves from their own feelings, so it spills over into making children into pawns while they try to control what the ex does. They have no right to do this, this is not the same as the situations you describe and in the case of the OP's family, it has been ongoing for the past few years - since the daughter was 4 or 5 years old. Totally unfair and nasty.
The mother needs to get over herself and move on.

FatVonD

I agree with Raspberry Beret that your SD should sleep with her dad if that's what it takes for her to start sleeping over gain.

You say, OP, that you would be willing to compromise (if only the mum would communicate) but people have suggested lots of ways round the situation but the only thing you seem to want to consider is how to get her to stop her co-sleeping.

I do believe it is the daughter's decision not to stay overnight and not her mum's (you have said yourself that she gets 'distressed' at bedtimes) and if her dad has previously worked nights then it's not like you are unused to sleeping on your own so I am wondering why it is you won't consider this?

If the mother truly is bitter (and I don't necessarily believe she is) then it will be a hollow victory to turf you out of your bed for one night a week when she realises you don't care and she no longer has anything to complain about.

FBaby

However, many other mothers, like in the OP's case, remain angry and bitter and cannot distance themselves from their own feelings, so it spills over into making children into pawns while they try to control what the ex does.

I agree with you views splishplash, but I don't get where you can be so certain that the pwc in the OP case is angry and bitter. I could maybe believe it if it was a case that she never allowed overnight stays, but it's not the case, they stopped when DD couldn't sleep with her father any longer and he started to insist that this bad habit needed to change.

Just as we don't know how much the decision comes from the mother or the child herself, we don't how much the motive to change things comes from her father or OP. For all we know, the father was fine with the sleeping situation until OP decided that she had enough not being able to sleep with her husband when his daughter comes over (personally, I think I would!).

It annoys me when people jump to conclusion that the pwc is bitter and twisted when it's a nrpp posting, or that the new partner is the devil reincarnated when it's a pwc who post. In almost all cases, we don't know, but I suspect that it is rarely black or white in any case.

tooldle

In the opening post, OP says that SD always slept alone when with OP and Dad. It was only when dad had to work that mother in law started to visit, and shared a room with SD. Sleeping on her own was not an issue, so why should it become so now? It would seem a regressive step to now begin co-sleeping.

supersaver2

FBaby wrote: »

I agree with you views splishplash, but I don't get where you can be so certain that the pwc in the OP case is angry and bitter. I could maybe believe it if it was a case that she never allowed overnight stays, but it's not the case, they stopped when DD couldn't sleep with her father any longer and he started to insist that this bad habit needed to change.

Just as we don't know how much the decision comes from the mother or the child herself, we don't how much the motive to change things comes from her father or OP. For all we know, the father was fine with the sleeping situation until OP decided that she had enough not being able to sleep with her husband when his daughter comes over (personally, I think I would!).

It annoys me when people jump to conclusion that the pwc is bitter and twisted when it's a nrpp posting, or that the new partner is the devil reincarnated when it's a pwc who post. In almost all cases, we don't know, but I suspect that it is rarely black or white in any case.

She is possibly getting the opinion about the mum after the many comments from the OP refusing to discuss the situation, refusing contact hence there being a contact order made, not allowing the OP to care for the child in her partners absent. I must say these comments aren't screaming that the Mum is entirely happy with her ex or his new life.

I can totally understand the Mum feeling like this and wanting to keep her daughter to herself and has been presented with a perfect opportunity but being a parent is hard and she needs to put the child's needs above her own feelings and start communicating.

FBaby

So once upon a time, DD was sleeping at dad's and was able to do so without sleeping with an adult and the mother had no problem with it. Then DD started to get upset about it, and still mum didn't interject for three weeks.

So what else but that she is upset for her daughter would be the reason to stop the night visits suddenly when it wasn't an issue before (not day visits)?

Lieja

FBaby wrote: »

So once upon a time, DD was sleeping at dad's and was able to do so without sleeping with an adult and the mother had no problem with it. Then DD started to get upset about it, and still mum didn't interject for three weeks.

So what else but that she is upset for her daughter would be the reason to stop the night visits suddenly when it wasn't an issue before (not day visits)?

There have been many issues before, hence the contact order. Obviously putting this situation into context would be extremely difficult, time consuming and ultimately boring for everyone else. Of course you don't know the ins and outs and you have no way of knowing whether what I'm saying is the truth or not, and I have no way of convincing you so I'm not going to try. I think it's important to have a range of views on issues like this because I am emotionally involved and it is hard to get a balanced view, but this is not by a long stretch the first time that she's done something like this.

I think the problem is less that the ex is trying to purposely cause problems with OH, but rather that because she doesn't think it's an issue that needs addressing (or that she is willing to address), then she won't entertain any notion from OH that there might be something that needs discussing. I do believe that she has stopped overnights primarily because SD is upset, but the problem is that she doesn't think it's worth speaking to OH about ways of working together to solve SD's issue. She doesn't even discuss the issue, just insists that she isn't staying over and 'there is no issue because co-sleeping is perfectly normal'.

Btw Duchy - OH's ex doesn't work so no pressures there, and SD spends more time in a week being looked after by her maternal grandmother and aunt than she does by her dad. Her mum has plenty of time doing things without SD, so I'm not sure the 'busy working single mum' thing applies. I'm sure she has things to do, but she certainly isn't stuck juggling SD, a job and her own 'me' time without any support with child care. OH often asks to be called when she needs a babysitter, but she won't entertain this idea because it's not in the contact order.

Anyway as for the only stopping nights and not days, she refused to allow SD to come at all on Sunday even when OH agreed she would go home, and instead took her out all day. OH has asked to see her yesterday or today instead and was met with a vague no to today and such a long delay in response to the question for yesterday that when it eventually came it was 'too late'. (She had text in the meantime so wasn't too busy, but ignored the request for contact). He also asked this afternoon if he could at least speak with SD on the phone, received back a 'can't text because I'm driving' text and since then nothing. She also won't confirm that he can see her on his usual days this week.

At the moment it seems that she either enjoys keeping him on a string, or really doesn't think his presence in SD's life is of particular importance. There may well be another reason that entirely justifies her behaviour, but as she won't share it with OH then we're left to think that she's just uninterested or incapable of dealing with the problem.

Carmina-Piranha_2

While we don't know all of the circumstances, not allowing the father to even have phone contact seems unfair. Like everyone else, my experience is only anecdotal, but I only know of one case where the resident parent would not allow phone contact, and in that instance the resident parent was controlling and was more interested in scoring points and being 'in the right' than in the children's relationship with the absent parent.

Of course it might be the case that the child is so panicked and anxious at the thought of being 'forced' to try to sleep alone, or upset at the thought of disappointing her dad, that she doesn't want to even talk to him. If I was the mum in that scenario then I would want to keep dad out of the picture for a while, to be honest.

But a text saying that Dad would follow raspberry beret's suggestion and would stay in the child's bed constantly might help. As a soppy, soft-touch mum that would be what I would need to put my child's mind at ease if my child was THAT anxious about something.

And maybe the mum follows a parenting style where it's acceptable and normal to co-sleep? She might be on a different forum getting advice from people who also co-sleep with their 8 year olds and think that your OH is totally unreasonable for trying to undermine her parenting.

Seeing as the mum has the control in this situation, I can't see any other way around things at the moment, if re-establishing contact is the priority. If it takes another couple of years before SD is happy to sleep alone then at least you'll get to see her. It's not the end of the world if she misses a school trip in year 4. Perhaps she'll be ready in year 6 if they go again then?

Lieja

Well still no contact of any kind with SD, so OH has text ex to say that SD will not be left alone at night and so can he speak to her to reassure her and talk about staying on Sunday.

Reply from ex says that it can't just be decided like that and it needs discussing. Considering she now won't address this point in texts again and has point blank refused to meet or speak on the phone means that this discussion cannot take place. When OH asked to discuss it she just stated that if he doesn't agree to take her home at bed time then she won't be coming at all. She has also quite categorically stated that the issue is nothing to do with her and she shouldn't be doing anything to address it with SD other than stopping her from coming. It is dad's problem at dad's house, so she won't be dealing with it.

Of course he can't deal with it because he can't have any contact with her! He's even tried calling on the off chance that she allows him to speak to SD, but obviously there's no answer every time.

Tbh even if she had a really good reason for stopping contact, the fact that she's going about it in this way is absolutely unjustifiable in itself. She just doesn't see that dad is of any importance in her child's life whatsoever.