Co-sleeping and overnights with NRP

Jet

duchy wrote: »

The new woman always tends to believe that the mother is the she devil and is completely in the wrong ............. amazing really that these men always seem to marry she devils first time around and saints the second

There are vindictive ex wives just as there are ex husbands, step mums and step dads.

rpc

cazziebo wrote: »

As a mother, I wouldn't force my child to stay away overnight if it upset her and I'd guess most mothers would be the same.

If your child wanted to stay an extra night or two with your ex, would you have be equally accomodating?

Also bear in mind that there is a court order in place that requires SD to spend one night each week with her dad. At 8, she is not likely to be legally competent and both parents must respect the court order. The whole point of orders is to force a decision where one cannot be reached by the parents - if you want to change that, you go back to court and don't unilaterally claim authority over the situation.

FBaby

I've been the pwc in the situation of a child who didn't want overnight stay. I have always -and still do- believed in the importance of my children having normal access to their father and always encouraged it, not for him, but because I know it is best for them.

However, when my DS was 5 and suddenly started to stay in didn't want to stay at night at his dad, I wondered what was going on. Initially, he wouldn't tell me, just said he didn't want to. Then one day, he burst into tears, those that come with real distress, and he begged me not to force him to go, clinging on to me. I defy any mother to not respond to this, because my heart broke and my instinct was to protect him, just as I would have done if he had reacted the same about going anywhere else.

After prompting him gently, it came up that he was highly embarassed at the fact that he still needed nappies at night because he had heard his dad and partner talking about it, how it wasn't right, how I should be doing something about it, implying that it was my fault. They didn't yell at him, but then mentioned it in a way that being a sensitive yet intelligent boy, put him under massive pressure. He didn't want to wait the bed, but couldn't help it. He didn't want to go any longer because he didn't want to disappoint. My position was that he would be ready when he was ready and it didn't matter, so he felt secure at home with me.

The conversation with dad was difficult because he right away got defensive, saying that he had never told him off and that he was being silly about it. In the end though, because he does love his son, he agreed to stop saying anything at all and our DS agreed to go again. He was dried only a few weeks later and has never had an issue with overnights again.

OP SD might be 8, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't go through similar worries and anxieties. Maybe she feels mum understand when dad doesn't. What is wrong is that mum won't talk about it, but then OP's husband might also have reacted defensively in the past and it has put her off having conversations.

So yes, maybe she is a nasty bitter ex, but maybe she just understands the needs of her daughter better. We don't know.

cazziebo

rpc wrote: »

If your child wanted to stay an extra night or two with your ex, would you have be equally accomodating?

Yes - that happened often.

I loved my kids going to their dad's. It was the one time that I knew they were with someone who loved them as much as I do. That was when I could really switch off and be me again. He might do things differently, and often things I didn't agree with, but as their father he had as much right as I had. My parents might get tired and grouchy, a babysitter is only there because they're paid, sleepovers were always a worry that you would get a call to say someone was sick and come and collect.

Would I have been as relaxed if he was going to be away and they would be left with his girlfriend? I'm not sure - especially not when they were young. And much as my DDs love their step mum, I'm not sure they would have been that happy either.

Marisco

cazziebo wrote: »

Yes - that happened often.

I loved my kids going to their dad's. It was the one time that I knew they were with someone who loved them as much as I do. That was when I could really switch off and be me again. He might do things differently, and often things I didn't agree with, but as their father he had as much right as I had. My parents might get tired and grouchy, a babysitter is only there because they're paid, sleepovers were always a worry that you would get a call to say someone was sick and come and collect.

Would I have been as relaxed if he was going to be away and they would be left with his girlfriend? I'm not sure - especially not when they were young. And much as my DDs love their step mum, I'm not sure they would have been that happy either.

It's a dammed shame more don't think like this!

duchy

It's hard though if you are 100% convinced that your way is best for your child and find the other person in the world who wants the best for them thinks differently. It's hard enough when you are still married to them - but far more so if you don't live together.

Lieja

Interesting discussion everyone, thanks. Sorry for the delay, just in from work and finally relaxing after a stressful day yesterday.

I can entirely see the ex's perspective in terms of her daughter being upset and her main priority is to stop it from happening. It's entirely instinctual and I get it. What I don't get is refusing to deal with the actual problem, and instead entirely pandering to the symptoms. SD is upset because she can't sleep alone, not just in our house but any including her own. She wants to be able to - it's on her Christmas list for Christ sake! Which was written entirely on her own, at her mum's house, unbeknown to me or OH. Her mum doesn't deal with this issue which clearly causes distress, and instead tucks her into her bed with her every night. That's fine for her, but when the same routine isn't possible at dad's then surely this should be discussed?

Btw Duchy - I know you all only have my word to go on so believe it or not, but my OH doesn't raise his voice to his ex, his daughter or me. He's very articulate and is more than aware of what being 'angry' towards his ex will result in. Of course he feels angry towards her, but all conversation with her is an attempt at discussion, not all out argument. He might feel like blowing up inside, but he never has and I believe never would.

He would be more than happy to stop the overnights for a while if it was part of a strategy discussed between him and ex, but every time he's asked to speak to her about it for the past 3 weeks she has ignored him or said no. So he's obviously now angry that she's made a decision like this without attempting to discuss the issue.

Also, I know this is again only coming from me, but there is no reason, however flimsy, that SD shouldn't be looked after by me. We get on brilliantly and I have no history of any questionable behaviour - which is more than can be said of some of the people that she gets looked after at home! That being said, I think at this stage it would be wrong to leave her with me overnight as she is prone to getting upset and would no doubt want her dad to comfort her. I am in no way pushing the issue or trying to muscle in, it is literally just a logistics things that would make everything run more smoothly and keep her routine in check.

Silvercar - OH is no longer working on his night with SD, so I'm not sure of your point. Of course it would have been great if he could have not worked, but he didn't get a choice. He works shifts, has to be there on time and there is no option for flexible working, which wouldn't affect the days he works anyway. He switched the shifts as soon as he possibly could, and doesn't work them now. In reality he should be on call those nights (in reality should work every weekend night, but managed to cover the shift and switch to on-call in emergencies for Sundays with SD), but had an agreement with his boss for now that someone else would be called first.

He initiated mediation about a month ago because ex continually refused to discuss me looking after her at night, but we're still waiting to find out whether she's responded to them. At the moment it looks like it's a waiting game until mediation can hopefully go ahead, and in the mean time just try to organise seeing SD when it's allowed.

Gah. I did actually used to think she was nice - I'm not the jealous type and thought it was great that although we weren't best mates or didn't know each other really well, we were polite and friendly. It was only when OH and I moved in together that things turned and this side of her came out. I do wonder whether there's an underlying issue such as a form of depression that's informing her choices. She appears to have an on-off relationship (that we only hear about through SD), and things always seem to get worse when his name stops being mentioned.

Thanks for all the suggestions btw - she has night lights, a 'protective teddy', all doors open, me in bed in the next room and dad with her until she's asleep. He then pops in every 10 mins to check - unfortunately going to sleep with her doesn't work as he simply isn't sleepy at 8.30pm! We've discussed it all, talked about coping strategies with her reassured her to the nth degree that nothing bad will happen but i think it will only come with time and patience. I remember being scared at her age but co-sleeping wasn't an option and I had my own mechanisms to cope.

Carmina-Piranha_2

silvercar wrote: »

Trying to see it from the ex's POV.

The only way I see that is if she is trying to put pressure on him to be around on the 1 night a week he has his daughter. So saying it is not acceptable for OP to have overnight care if the ex isn't around in the hope that he will prioritise having his daughter over his work schedule.

Of course this makes no allowance for him being unable to change his work schedule, but maybe she believes that the laws on flexible working applications should allow him to be free on the 1 night he has his daughter.

I thought the laws on flexible working only applied with children under the age of 5, but I could be wrong.

Ok the mum might think like that, but sometimes a job simply can't be flexible. The dad HAS prioritised his daughter by changing his shifts as soon as was possible.

I don't think it's unreasonable for the dad to want to discuss things with the mum - maybe not every little thing, but saying that the child doesn't want to sleep over is a big thing and she should be willing to discuss it with him even if she despises him.

I don't know what the solution could be, can you force somebody into mediation?

Could SD stay up late on the night that she sleeps over at his house? He's not sleepy at 8:30 but maybe if they had a movie night until he was sleepy he could sleep at the same time as her? It's not a permanent solution because it doesn't address the problem, but addressing the problem is going to be tricky if the parents can't discuss things between themselves.

cazziebo

Carmina-Piranha wrote: »

I thought the laws on flexible working only applied with children under the age of 5, but I could be wrong.

As of June this year, every employee has the right to request flexible working - but that's all - it's only a request. The business does not have to comply.

Lieja

He's actually self-employed in his current job, and the nature of the job is he has to be available on weekend nights. He's managed to work out Sundays because they're thankfully quiet, but as a member of management he has to be available to attend any important incidents or cover if there are any no-shows.

We tried staying up late the first night it became an issue, but unfortunately being over-tired just exacerbated things for SD and OH is scared of taking her to school tired because that will be another trigger for his ex. The actual times seemed to work because although she was taking a little while to sleep, she was only waking up a few times and so wasn't overly tired on a morning.