Co-sleeping and overnights with NRP

splishsplash

duchy wrote: »

It's hard though if you are 100% convinced that your way is best for your child and find the other person in the world who wants the best for them thinks differently. It's hard enough when you are still married to them - but far more so if you don't live together.

Both parents are entitled parent as they wish. Do you think the NRP has the right to decide who can babysit the child when the PWC goes out/goes to work? I bet not.

Just because a mother feels she knows best doesn't make it true. Any fundamental differences should be negotiated with the father, no good is going to come of trying to control what is not her right to control, or holding the child hostage to get her own way.

Funny how the man in these situations is often fine to father a child but not parent it.

FBaby

Unfortunately, they have got themselves into the vicious circle of making decisions and taking actions on the basis what they think is right, rather than accepting that they might have to compromise, even when they are right because it will always be better for the child when parents work together. Like Duchy said, it is hard enough when you are together, let alone when you are not. Once it becomes a 'I'm right so you should do as I suggest', however polite and pleasant, it starts the vicious circle downwards.

My suggestion is that if it is such an issue that she sleeps on her own and clearly the child is close to her mum, then, it would make sense that this is a matter tackled at home with her mum where she has more a routine at the moment. Forget whether it is mum or her who are behind not staying at night. Personally, I believe that if the child has such an issue with it that she will not sleep alone with anyone, it is more likely to be her not wanting to come.

You mention that she wants to go on a school trip soon, so could this be the incentive that both parents can work together to support? How about suggesting the compromise that DD come overnight when he is home at night only, but mum agrees to keep him updated on how she is working with DD to get her prepare for the trip. Once DD will be reassured that nothing is forced on her, she will most likely make the decision herself, and most likely, it will be one night has to be with someone, the following, she is fine alone and it isn't an issue any longer.

It reminds me when I told DS (again!) that he had to give up the dummy. Absolute trauma as many parents will remember to. He refused, tears going, anxiety flaring, he tried, couldn't etc.... It went on for a number of weeks and then I gave up as his anxieties about going to sleep were starting to affect him. Then suddenly, a couple of weeks ago, he announced as I was kissing him good night that he was going to give his dummies to the fairy. He asked me to take them all with me and that was it. He slept like a baby and never put a dummy in his mouth again. That's because he was in control, he did it when he was ready.

It sounds like the trip is a very good incentive to get her to make the decision alone. If dad thinks it is too late in the year, how about organising a week-end away somewhere she would really really want to go, but say that the deal is that she would need to sleep in her own bed, so tell her that it will be booked as soon as she says that she is ready and shows that she can do it at home first?

Lieja

FBaby wrote: »

Unfortunately, they have got themselves into the vicious circle of making decisions and taking actions on the basis what they think is right, rather than accepting that they might have to compromise, even when they are right because it will always be better for the child when parents work together. Like Duchy said, it is hard enough when you are together, let alone when you are not. Once it becomes a 'I'm right so you should do as I suggest', however polite and pleasant, it starts the vicious circle downwards.

The biggest problem OH faces is that his ex just will not discuss anything with him. OH would be happy to discuss, come up with a strategy together and work as a team to address the problem. If that meant that SD didn't sleep over for a while then he would still be happy to know that the problem was being addressed and overnights were still on the cards when it was sorted, however long that might take. Any power to address the issue has been taken out if his hands and it's been made very clear that his ex is not addressing the issue at all.

My suggestion is that if it is such an issue that she sleeps on her own and clearly the child is close to her mum, then, it would make sense that this is a matter tackled at home with her mum where she has more a routine at the moment. Forget whether it is mum or her who are behind not staying at night. Personally, I believe that if the child has such an issue with it that she will not sleep alone with anyone, it is more likely to be her not wanting to come.

She isn't hiding that she doesn't want to come from either parent, and OH really doesn't like her being upset but he's stuck in that he could only do as much as he could when she was with us, knowing that nothing was happening to help at home. If he'd given in and told SD that she didn't have to sleep over, then he knew the issue wouldn't be addressed by mum and she wouldn't be back until whenever his ex decided to address the problem.

You mention that she wants to go on a school trip soon, so could this be the incentive that both parents can work together to support? How about suggesting the compromise that DD come overnight when he is home at night only, but mum agrees to keep him updated on how she is working with DD to get her prepare for the trip. Once DD will be reassured that nothing is forced on her, she will most likely make the decision herself, and most likely, it will be one night has to be with someone, the following, she is fine alone and it isn't an issue any longer.

SD's mum will not discuss the problem, therefore there is no working together or compromise to be had. That's what OH has been trying to do for the last 3 weeks knowing that dealing with the problem at home is the key to making things easier on SD, but has been entirely stonewalled whenever he tries to mention he'd like to discuss the problem.

It reminds me when I told DS (again!) that he had to give up the dummy. Absolute trauma as many parents will remember to. He refused, tears going, anxiety flaring, he tried, couldn't etc.... It went on for a number of weeks and then I gave up as his anxieties about going to sleep were starting to affect him. Then suddenly, a couple of weeks ago, he announced as I was kissing him good night that he was going to give his dummies to the fairy. He asked me to take them all with me and that was it. He slept like a baby and never put a dummy in his mouth again. That's because he was in control, he did it when he was ready.

It sounds like the trip is a very good incentive to get her to make the decision alone. If dad thinks it is too late in the year, how about organising a week-end away somewhere she would really really want to go, but say that the deal is that she would need to sleep in her own bed, so tell her that it will be booked as soon as she says that she is ready and shows that she can do it at home first?

As above, strategies like this aren't really doable without the ex's support, which isn't forthcoming.

duchy

splishsplash wrote: »

Both parents are entitled parent as they wish. Do you think the NRP has the right to decide who can babysit the child when the PWC goes out/goes to work? I bet not.

Just because a mother feels she knows best doesn't make it true. Any fundamental differences should be negotiated with the father, no good is going to come of trying to control what is not her right to control, or holding the child hostage to get her own way.

Funny how the man in these situations is often fine to father a child but not parent it.

Sorry but I disagree with you completely.
When I needed to make changes to childcare (I didn't use "babysitters" when I worked but qualified childcare) as that was something that impacted on our son I'd discuss them with my ex-husband. His attitude tended to be "You know more about this than me" but nonetheless we'd discuss options and I'd take his opinions on board but as the primary carer (just like when we were married) the ultimate decision he felt was mine.as he felt I had better insight in how it would work. No different really to when we were married- childcare options tended to fall into my domain - he had other areas where he felt he was more knowledgeable which were his. Doesn't mean either of us didn't have a say in the other's area though but I knew more about the childcare options, he knew more about other things and didn't have the same Mum's network I had.

Did he have a "right" to dictate the type of childcare -no but as a parent his opinions mattered too. The final decision had to be mine because it had to work with my work pattern not his (again not awfully different to when we were married as he worked crazy hours so mine were deliberately tailored to childcare)but I'd discuss my options with him and valued his input. Sometimes he'd raise things I hadn't considered or sometimes I'd give reasons for my choices that he hadn't considered.

Most mothers think they know best for their child married or not - simply because they are (usually) the one who spends the most time with the child and physically have their finger on the pulse for the majority of the time. If a father was the primary carer and had the child for six nights a week rather than one-then they would be the one best placed to make the most informed decision-so it isn't really a gender issue but a question of who has the most information.

If a child is upset -the natural parental response is to protect - if you have a child telling you six days a week they don't want to sleep at Dad's and Dad can't/won't understand just how upset they are then communication fails because the urge to protect is stronger. Claiming the mother is "holding the child hostage" is a bit of a drama lama response.

In this case - with a respite from confrontation between the parents then hopefully mediation will be agreed to and both parents are able to listen to each other and find some common ground -like a graduated increase in access working on increasing the child's comfort zone

splishsplash

duchy wrote: »

Sorry but I disagree with you completely.
When I needed to make changes to childcare (I didn't use "babysitters" when I worked but qualified childcare) as that was something that impacted on our son I'd discuss them with my ex-husband. His attitude tended to be "You know more about this than me" but nonetheless we'd discuss options and I'd take his opinions on board but as the primary carer (just like when we were married) the ultimate decision he felt was mine.as he felt I had better insight in how it would work. No different really to when we were married- childcare options tended to fall into my domain - he had other areas where he felt he was more knowledgeable which were his. Doesn't mean either of us didn't have a say in the other's area though but I knew more about the childcare options, he knew more about other things and didn't have the same Mum's network I had.

Did he have a "right" to dictate the type of childcare -no but as a parent his opinions mattered too. The final decision had to be mine because it had to work with my work pattern not his (again not awfully different to when we were married as he worked crazy hours so mine were deliberately tailored to childcare)but I'd discuss my options with him and valued his input. Sometimes he'd raise things I hadn't considered or sometimes I'd give reasons for my choices that he hadn't considered.

Most mothers think they know best for their child married or not - simply because they are (usually) the one who spends the most time with the child and physically have their finger on the pulse for the majority of the time. If a father was the primary carer and had the child for six nights a week rather than one-then they would be the one best placed to make the most informed decision-so it isn't really a gender issue but a question of who has the most information.

If a child is upset -the natural parental response is to protect - if you have a child telling you six days a week they don't want to sleep at Dad's and Dad can't/won't understand just how upset they are then communication fails because the urge to protect is stronger. Claiming the mother is "holding the child hostage" is a bit of a drama lama response.

In this case - with a respite from confrontation between the parents then hopefully mediation will be agreed to and both parents are able to listen to each other and find some common ground -like a graduated increase in access working on increasing the child's comfort zone

I think it's great that you worked out how to negotiate with your ex but this thread is about someone (the child's mother) who is trying to dictate terms and is not interested in reasoned discussion, so not really the same.
As I said in my post, ideally, differing approaches to parenting should be negotiated between parents but in the real world that doesn't always happen. This doesn't mean that one parent's approach is the one that has to be followed in the other parent's house.
I don't think many childcare providers are open to cover night shifts which is why I used the term babysitter. I didn't see any reference to childcare in the OP's posts, only to the fact that the ex won't allow her to 'babysit' when the father works at night, so she had to bring in granny to 'babysit'.

Marisco

splishsplash wrote: »

I think it's great that you worked out how to negotiate with your ex but this thread is about someone (the child's mother) who is trying to dictate terms and is not interested in reasoned discussion, so not really the same.
As I said in my post, ideally, differing approaches to parenting should be negotiated between parents but in the real world that doesn't always happen. This doesn't mean that one parent's approach is the one that has to be followed in the other parent's house.
I don't think many childcare providers are open to cover night shifts which is why I used the term babysitter. I didn't see any reference to childcare in the OP's posts, only to the fact that the ex won't allow her to 'babysit' when the father works at night, so she had to bring in granny to 'babysit'.

And this is the bottom line!! Many have given good advice in this thread, but if the ex won't stop being bloody minded and stubborn and come "round the table" and talk, then really the op's oh's hands are totally tied.

duchy

It isn't easy to keep that balance-especially when new partners want a say too (I note things changed about the time the OP appeared on the scene) or the other parent starts going on about needing to consider them too-and you find yourself feeling that the child's needs aren't such a priority with them anymore.

Despite what some fathers may think - the life of a single mum (especially if you've previously had the other parent fully involved) isn't a bowl of cherries. You often have no respite- and are "on duty" 24 hours a day with no-one to realistically share the load. Even at work you are aware that the phone can ring at any time and it doesn't matter if you are in a meeting or doing something vital -there is no-one to call to say "Can you pick them up" no-one to share their sick days with, no-one to just bounce thoughts or worries off in the same way you can another parent. It is hard work - and most Dad's with the best will in the world can't fill that gap after a relationship breaks down. I think most Mums at one time or another grit their teeth when they've spent all day Sunday catching up on housework before Monday morning rolls around again whilst listening to how Daddy took them somewhere fun and did all the fun parent stuff and none of the discipline or mundane stuff that is so essential leaving little time to be "fun Mum"

Even if a split was the right thing for everyone - there are times it all grates and can cause resentment -and can cause a backlash.

My ex would offer to have our son more when I verbalized those kind of feelings - but realistically the only time he could have him was when I wasn't working so it didn't really solve anything as what I wanted wasn't more "me time" but more time to spend quality time with our son not even less. There's no easy solutions . Keeping in mind the RP isn't an ogre but another person also trying to do their best in less than ideal circumstances and trying to work as a team with someone they have relationship baggage with-is never easy and if communication breaks down try and see the other side to be able to get back to a working co-parenting communication point.

Often you simply don't want to -but need to !

splishsplash wrote: »

I think it's great that you worked out how to negotiate with your ex but this thread is about someone (the child's mother) who is trying to dictate terms and is not interested in reasoned discussion, so not really the same.
As I said in my post, ideally, differing approaches to parenting should be negotiated between parents but in the real world that doesn't always happen. This doesn't mean that one parent's approach is the one that has to be followed in the other parent's house.
I don't think many childcare providers are open to cover night shifts which is why I used the term babysitter. I didn't see any reference to childcare in the OP's posts, only to the fact that the ex won't allow her to 'babysit' when the father works at night, so she had to bring in granny to 'babysit'.

FBaby

The biggest problem OH faces is that his ex just will not discuss anything with him.

Why is that? More importantly, has it always been this way? It sounds like they had some sort of basic level of communication in the past, so why has it gone totally pear-shape? Is it really all the pwc own doing?

it's been made very clear that his ex is not addressing the issue at all.

How do you know that if communcation is not taking place? Maybe she is dealing with it, but not sharing how she is doing so and because it is not in a short term way, there is nothing to show for it yet?

then he knew the issue wouldn't be addressed by mum and she wouldn't be back until whenever his ex decided to address the problem.

She is 8 though and her wants will be much more difficult to ignore by mum. If she insists with mum that she really want to go and stay the nights at dad and her mother says absolutely not, you might find that DD starts whinging about mum to you. Kids are much more manipulative then their parents!!

That's what OH has been trying to do for the last 3 weeks knowing that dealing with the problem at home is the key to making things easier on SD

3 weeks? That's no time at all when dealing with a break down in communication. Could the problem be that she is not responding because she is not agreeing with his suggested ways to 'deal with it at home' and it has put her into a defensive mode? Could he send her an email, saying that he is supportive of DD wanting to try to sleep on her own and what can he do to help with it at home. I have written so many conciliary text/emails to my ex when what I wanted to write was 'you ****, control freak, always wanting your way, not thinking of the kids, you better get your act together', but I knew that would only fuel conflict even more and get us somewhere. I got much more out of him by pretending that I thought he was a great father!

I am not defending the pwc in any way, just thinking of what your OH can do that he can control rather than what he can't do to change the situation.

FBaby

I think it's great that you worked out how to negotiate with your ex but this thread is about someone (the child's mother) who is trying to dictate terms and is not interested in reasoned discussion, so not really the same.

The way I read this thread is that both are trying to dictate within the control they both have to do so, hence why communication has degenerated.

duchy

Agreed-what I posted was the end of the journey - not the beginning.
It takes time and patience and a lot of tongue biting along the way........and you keep reminding yourself that you are doing this for the child.

But it IS possible !