EE/Orange/T-Mobile - Reclaim ALL price rises AND cancel contract re T&C change - 2

Mikmonken

boatman wrote: »

It would appear that adjudicators do not have to follow the rules, they can do what they like! Having asked that my case be reviewed, CISAS cannot review the proceedures used by the adjudicator. Surely for CISAS to be effective the adjudicator needs to follow procedure.

It's harsh but right at the bottom of the claim form it does say

You must provide evidence to justify the amount claimed. You cannot change the amount at a later date.

But that doesn't mean you should give up, although i think you need to use Systemic errors in order for it to go to independent review here are a couple of points you might want to raise with the Chief Exec (who is also a trustee of the Charity CISAS are owned by CEDR)

1. The adjudicator noted that you had failed to provide evidence of a cheaper contract being made available and penalised you for this. In doing so there has been a failure in the system as Rule:

4.4 Documents and Additional Information states

a) CISAS may, on behalf of the adjudicator, contact the customer and company to ask for further documents or information. CISAS will send copies of any extra information or documents received to the other party.

having noticed that evidence was missing it was the adjudicators responsibility to request this info, instead they choose to penalise you.

2. By not requesting this info the adjudicator has gone against the Charity's statement of purpose:

"THE OBJECTS FOR WHICH THE COMPANY IS ESTABLISHED ARE TO PROMOTE THE USE OF CONCILIATION, MEDIATION, ADJUDICATION AND OTHER METHODS AND PROCEDURES FOR RESOLVING DISPUTES BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS AND/OR ORGANISATIONS WHERE THIS WILL AVOID OR REDUCE THE NEED FOR, AND THEREBY RELIEVE THE SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC COSTS OF, LITIGATION AND EQUIVALENT PROCEDURES ("ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION”).
and
"TO PROMOTE FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC IN THE UK, EUROPE AND THROUGHOUT THE WORLD THE USE OF CONCILIATION MEDIATION ADJUDICATION AND OTHER METHODS AND PROCEDURES FOR RESOLVING DISPUTES BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS AND/OR ORGANISATIONS WHERE THIS WILL AVOID OR REDUCE THE NEED FOR AND THEREFORE RELIEVE THE SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC COST OF LITIGATION AND EQUIVALENT PROCEDURES"

effectively putting speed over quality and in doing so actually potentially increasing the THE SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC COST OF LITIGATION AND EQUIVALENT PROCEDURES.

3. I would also note down the following that I am sure probably applied to you at some point but double check your emails

according to the 2013 report the Independent reviewer made recommendations to CISAS which should have been addressed, in my case it is apparent you’ve ignored these recommendations:
Be clear and specific about timescale for responses. Avoid using vague phrases to explain timescale such as ‘in due course’. Where a delay is inevitable, update complainants and provide an apology, explanation and new timescale.

the last point is irrelevant to your case but the fact is that they are using the same independent reviewer so the fact that CISAS have ignored the advice over and over again may prove in your favour.

it's certainly worth a try, after over 6 months of badgering my case apparently is with the independent reviewer, there were so many issues with my case, from messed up timescales, ignored emails, contradictions between CEO and COO, rules that should have been implemented and weren't, COO stating that my case had never been accepted at all despite the rules stating the opposite, and then there is the fact that they started ignoring my correspondence all together, but i don't hold much hope that anything will come of it.

The irony is that in my initial complaint, i asked either of the following:
Case to be reopened and to follow due process – or compensation to the sum of £826 which would have been the approximate compensation (given the amount being charged by EE to cancel my account had an adjudicator ruled in my favour.
i'm sure the amount of time effort and the fact it's now finally been referred to the Independent reviewer this has cost them far more than £826 given the length of some of their email responses all of the reviews etc.

I'm under no illusion that anything will come of this and little hope that the independent reviewer will find anything wrong with the way that CISAS, CEDR their CEO, COO and Director and below have behaved and acted in relation to the case and complaint, but i hope that anyone else going through the process will have a slightly better and fairer time of it.

skybluestu

Hi,
I am after some advice on the recent EE March 2015 1.1% price increase notification.

I started my contract at the start of February 2015 and have received the notification of the price increase. However they did not tell me specifically what my new monthly cost will be in the notification, although they listed a web address where I could find this information out (ee dot co dot uk / pricechanges).

I have since been on the website and according to the calculator my current monthly charge will increase by 1.100550275137569% which is above the maximum 1.1% they are allowed to increase by!

I initially thought that I would wait and see what the price actually is on my first bill after the increase (and if it is above RPI I have it in black and white and can ask for a penalty free cancellation). However upon reading the terms and conditions it states that:

EE wrote:

7.2.3 A Cancellation Charge won’t apply if You are within the Minimum Term and:

7.2.3.3 We have given You Written Notice of an increase in a Price Plan Charge under point 7.1 that is higher than the annual percentage increase in the Retail Price Index (RPI) as calculated in point 7.1.4; and You give Us notice to immediately cancel this Agreement before the change takes effect.

Now they have given me written notice of a 1.1% increase which is in line with their T&Cs so I wouldn’t give notice at the minute, however, is the website address with the calculator listed in their written notice deemed to be written notice of my actual increase? In which case it is above the RPI figure and I need to request cancellation now?

So they are unable to fix their calculator (and block my potential for a penalty free cancellation), I would rather wait until my first bill after the increase - but I am concerned that if I wait until then I will be greeted by a “you didn’t give us notice before the change came into effect” response!

Any help/advice appreciated.

boatman

Thanks Mikmonmen for your time to respond. I won my case, the adjudicator agreed that T-mobile had failed to follow the t&c's, i should have been released from my contract when i requested, i think it should have been automatic that i be paid back what i was being forced to pay. T-mobile chose to carry on forcing me to pay.
Its irrelevant what other deal i could have had, they were in the wrong and should pay back any money from the date of the complaint. The adjudicator made a comment to the effect that i was happy to keep paying which is rediculous, if i was happy to pay i wouldn't have complained to CISAS.
If they dont have to pay back money from when the original complaint was made there is no incentive for them to sort it out, they will always let it go to arbitration.

jaybeerex

Took my monthly 4g contract out as an upgrade for an orange account of several years back in sept 2013, will i have any luck with this? or will this not apply to contracts of this date?

RandomCurve

skybluestu wrote: »

Hi,
I am after some advice on the recent EE March 2015 1.1% price increase notification.

I started my contract at the start of February 2015 and have received the notification of the price increase. However they did not tell me specifically what my new monthly cost will be in the notification, although they listed a web address where I could find this information out (ee dot co dot uk / pricechanges).

I have since been on the website and according to the calculator my current monthly charge will increase by 1.100550275137569% which is above the maximum 1.1% they are allowed to increase by!

I initially thought that I would wait and see what the price actually is on my first bill after the increase (and if it is above RPI I have it in black and white and can ask for a penalty free cancellation). However upon reading the terms and conditions it states that:



Now they have given me written notice of a 1.1% increase which is in line with their T&Cs so I wouldn’t give notice at the minute, however, is the website address with the calculator listed in their written notice deemed to be written notice of my actual increase? In which case it is above the RPI figure and I need to request cancellation now?

So they are unable to fix their calculator (and block my potential for a penalty free cancellation), I would rather wait until my first bill after the increase - but I am concerned that if I wait until then I will be greeted by a “you didn’t give us notice before the change came into effect” response!

Any help/advice appreciated.

Someone tried on this type of basis last year and lost their case.


However different adjudicators make different decisions based on the same facts, so just because someone lost last year does not mean that you would lose this year.


If you were to reduce the increased by 1p what would the percentage be?


If I were you I would construct a case based on the fact that the contract says no more than 1.1% and therefore EE should have rounded down, by rounding up they have breached the contract. It cost you NOTHING if you lose.


First thing to do is to email EE and request a penalty free cancellation due to the fact that they have applied an increase of greater than the published RPI rate.

AAB

Can somebody please advice me where I stand? I have already lost good part of £200 cashback on this contract due to P4U/Dial-a-Phone going into Administration. Will I be able to get out of my remaining contract?


I took this 24 months Orange contract out on 17 April 2014 through Dial-a-Phone. And I have received March 2015 1.1% price increase notification letter from them.


I have tried to read through this thread but I am confused. I would really appreciate some help.

jaybeerex

response received as follow: so what next?

Case Reference: 2296464
Account Number: 109166311

Dear Mr Baker,

Thank you for your email, received in the Executive Office, the contents of which are noted and acknowledged. I have been asked to respond on behalf of EE.

I am sorry you are unhappy with the Price Increase that took effect in March 2014. As a company we are committed to offering the best value for service which is why we have kept the increase to a minimum. The increase is a result of the rising costs to our business and is in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI), which is a measure of inflation.

We are obliged, as are all UK operators, to abide by General Condition 9.6 of the Ofcom guidelines. This condition sets out what we must do if a change is of material detriment to a customer, which is to provide 30 days' notice and allow a customer to end their agreement free of charge. When the changes are not of material detriment, the customer does not have the right to end their agreement. In the case of this price increase, the change is not of material detriment to customers.

The increase is in line with the Terms and Conditions of your contract specifically clause 7.1.4. As the increase is less than RPI should you wish to close the account early in accordance with clause 7.2.3.3 you would be subject to an early termination fee.

Whilst I understand this is not the outcome you were looking for, I trust I have clarified EE's position regarding this matter.

Yours sincerely

Nicola Newman
Executive Office, EE

NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER
This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended for the above-named person(s). If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, delete this email from your system and do not disclose or use for any purpose.

We may monitor all incoming and outgoing emails in line with current legislation. We have taken steps to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus, but it remains your responsibility to ensure that viruses do not adversely affect you.

EE Limited
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Company Registered Number: 02382161
Registered Office Address: Trident Place, Mosquito Way, Hatfield, Hertfordshire, AL10 9BW.

Mikmonken

Post 1 of this forum has some good guidance as to how to proceed, it looks like you're at stage 2.

Step 1
Email EE requesting a refund of all sums taken over and above the originally agreed contract price (applies to all contracts – even those that have finished)
And if applicable – Contract cancellation due to the change in T&Cs effective 26th March (contract cancellation is not applicable to those whose contracts ended before 26th March 2014 OR T-Mobile customers on V58 of the contract (contracts stared pre 30th October 2012)).
EE will probably respond with a polite "No" and quote some legal jargon regarding GC 9.6.
Step 2
Email EE restating your position and request that they send you a deadlock letter so that you can take a case to CISAS (the independent adjudication service) Again I will provide a standard Email for you to use.
At this point EE will either:
Still attempt to ignore you – in which case I will supply further template emails
Provide a deadlock reference (they usually need to be “harassed” 3 or 4 times before grudgingly saying that they will not communicate further (which acts as a deadlock reference anyway)) OR
(And I’m 99% sure this won’ happen) EE will give in and process your refund/cancellation or both.
Assuming EE will not comply with regulation without a CISAS decision then we need to move to step 3

If you have a look at the first page or so that should help. having had a quick look myself i would say you need to respond with post #7

AAB

AAB wrote: »

Can somebody please advice me where I stand? I have already lost good part of £200 cashback on this contract due to P4U/Dial-a-Phone going into Administration. Will I be able to get out of my remaining contract?


I took this 24 months Orange contract out on 17 April 2014 through Dial-a-Phone. And I have received March 2015 1.1% price increase notification letter from them.


I have tried to read through this thread but I am confused. I would really appreciate some help.

Anybody? Please

RandomCurve

AAB wrote: »

Can somebody please advice me where I stand? I have already lost good part of £200 cashback on this contract due to P4U/Dial-a-Phone going into Administration. Will I be able to get out of my remaining contract?


I took this 24 months Orange contract out on 17 April 2014 through Dial-a-Phone. And I have received March 2015 1.1% price increase notification letter from them.


I have tried to read through this thread but I am confused. I would really appreciate some help.

I don't know the answer, but you raise a really good point. if you have legal advice on your home or car insurance, or through work etc then give them a call and explain.


As I see it Phones 4U "introduced" you to EE, and I assume EE pay Phones 4U commission for that introduction.
As an inducement Phones4U offered cashback (presumably out of the "commission" they receive from EE).


So the point is - When did/do EE pay Phones 4U the Commission, and what happened when Phones 4U went under?


1 - If EE paid Phones4U upfront:
Then your redress is to the administrators at phones for 4U and you will need to register with them that you are a "creditor" of phones 4U - there are timescales within which you have to register that debt, and I would think you would have missed this by now.


2 - IF EE pay Monthly to phones4U
Then I would assume the administrator of Phones4U would have lodged a claim with EE for the balance owing, but would EE have paid that; or would they have claimed that as they do not know if you will keep the contract then the debt is not due?
So the arguments here are if EE have not and are not paying phones 4U then the cost to EE of running your contract has reduced considerably, and therefore they can not say that the cost have increased on your contract. If EE are paying phones 4U still, then you need to proceed as per (1) above, and your claim may still be in date.


Please let us know how you get on with this.