EE/Orange/T-Mobile - Reclaim ALL price rises AND cancel contract re T&C change - 2

Mikmonken

Thanks Maccadinhio.

Had a response from CEDR today it was a poor showing, not enough resource to provide a response to my clarifying why they haven't followed procedure.

I've escalated but think we need to see more responses before A further template is posted.

To reiterate what RC said if we want to get CISAS to reopen cases we need as many people as possible to complain. Last year 171 cases were kicked out like ours following an objection from the company. When you add that to the number of inconsistent decisions made by CISAS that's close to 15% of all decisions made being flawed and in favour of the company.

CISAS state the 53% were in favour of the consumer and that doesn't include they're trying to suggest that 50:50 means impartial whereas impartial actually in this case is each case being judged on its own merits. If ee ballsed up 100% of the time being impartial doesn't mean the CISAS allow only 50% of the consumers to get out of the contract, that just means that 50% of their cases have had the wrong outcome.

If everyone complains about the way they've been treated by CISAS we might have a chance of getting this overturned. So the more people who cut and paste that quick email the better.

RandomCurve

The below is a COPY of post #22 I have posted HERE so that you can see it now and also on post '#22 so it will be easy to find later

RandomCurve wrote: »

Ofcom have explained that due to the fact CISAS had "made a decision" Ofcom are now powerless to do anything. So two things need to happen
1 -We need to send Ofcom details of where CISAS have not followed PROCESS - See post #145, and
2 - We need to escalate complaints to CEDR (CISAS "holding company").

If you have had a case accepted, and then Withdrawn by CISAS under rule 2b please follow the emails at posts #146. #147 and #148, however in order to help expedite the process also send the email below IMMEDIATELY:


Send to:
[EMAIL="GMassie@cedr.com"]GMassie@cedr.com[/EMAIL]

Cc:
[EMAIL="Lynn.Parker@ofcom.org.uk"]Lynn.Parker@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="Complaints@idrs.ltd.uk"]Complaints@idrs.ltd.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="cisas@idrs.ltd.uk"]cisas@idrs.ltd.uk[/EMAIL]

[EMAIL="Edwin.lane@bbc.co.uk"]Edwin.lane@bbc.co.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="joel.taylor@ukmetro.co.uk"]joel.taylor@ukmetro.co.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="your.problems@observer.co.uk"]your.problems@observer.co.uk[/EMAIL]

Optional:
[EMAIL="Info@Fightmobileincreases.com"]Info@Fightmobileincreases.com[/EMAIL]


Re: CISAS Breach Scheme Rules - Independence now Questionable.


Dear Mr Massie

This is to advise that I have begun the process of a formal complaint against CISAS for not following its published rules. I believe this indiscretion may have damaged CISAS’s independence thereby making it unfit to continue to be an ADR under the Communication Act 2003.

I have written to you directly as I know you are currently reviewing similar cases from other consumers and thought it important that you were aware that this is not an isolated incident. This will of course escalate formally to you in due course.

Brief details of the Incident:

• CISAS accepted a case from me regarding the enforceability of EEs/Orange/T-Mobiles OLD price variation clause, AND a claim that the change in Terms and Conditions imposed by EE on 26th March gives rise to my right to a penalty free cancellation.
  1. CISAS accepted the case as they submitted a copy to EE – Rule 4.1a – “When CISAS accepts a valid claim it will submit a copy electronically to the company”.
• I had previously taken a case to CISAS in regards to EEs NEW price variation clause.

Once CISAS have accepted a case the published process is that:

• EE have a right to submit a defence within 10 days
• I then have a right to respond to EEs defence within 5 days.
• An adjudicator is appointed
• The adjudicator makes their decision – including (if EE have pleaded) if the case falls within CISAS remit or not.
  • As per rule 2e – “The adjudicator alone has the power to determine whether or not the dispute falls within the scope of the Scheme”.

What CISAS have done on this occasion is entered into secret negotiations with EE and concluded that my new claim is the same as the old claim and invoked rule 2b to withdraw my claim. The term SECRET is appropriate as CISAS did not inform me until after EEs 10 day deadline had passed that they were in negation with EE and have refused pass details of the communications between EE and CISAS to me as an OPEN and INDEPENDENT process would require- and as per CISAS rule 4.3a “When CISAS receives the company’s response it will send a copy of it to the customer.”


Had due process been followed I would have pointed out the clear differences between the two claims and believe a fair and independent adjudicator would have accepted the case and then judged on the substantive arguments of the claim on their merits.


Regards

RandomCurve

Please help us to highlight the collusion between EE and CISAS to deny those who have had previous cases heard by CISAS withdrawn by sending the email below -One day you may need an independent adjudicator, and unless you complain NOW that independence can not be assured! The email below should be sent even if you don't have an EE contract (I have not - and I've already sent mine).


Send to:
[EMAIL="GMassie@cedr.com"]GMassie@cedr.com[/EMAIL]

Cc:
[EMAIL="Lynn.Parker@ofcom.org.uk"]Lynn.Parker@ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="Complaints@idrs.ltd.uk"]Complaints@idrs.ltd.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="cisas@idrs.ltd.uk"]cisas@idrs.ltd.uk[/EMAIL]

[EMAIL="Edwin.lane@bbc.co.uk"]Edwin.lane@bbc.co.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="joel.taylor@ukmetro.co.uk"]joel.taylor@ukmetro.co.uk[/EMAIL]
[EMAIL="your.problems@observer.co.uk"]your.problems@observer.co.uk[/EMAIL]

Optional:

[EMAIL="Info@Fightmobileincreases.com"]Info@Fightmobileincreases.com[/EMAIL]

Re: CISAS Breach Scheme Rules - Independence now Questionable.

Dear Mr Massie

This is to advise that I have seen correspondence in relation to CISAS’s breach of its own rules which I believe may have damaged CISAS’s independence thereby making it unfit to continue to be an ADR under the Communication Act 2003.

I have written to you directly as I know you are currently reviewing similar cases from other consumers and as a concerned consumer I am keen find out how this situation will be rectified as it may be that one day I need to use an ADR and need to be assured that the process is in indeed independent. The details are as follows:

• CISAS accepted a case regarding the enforceability of EEs/Orange/T-Mobiles OLD price variation clause, AND a claim that the change in Terms and Conditions imposed by EE on 26th March which may give rise to the right to a penalty free cancellation.
  1. CISAS accepted the case as they submitted a copy to EE – as per Rule 4.1a – “When CISAS accepts a valid claim it will submit a copy electronically to the company”.
• The customer had previously taken a case to CISAS in regards to EEs NEW price variation clause.

Once CISAS have accepted a case the published process is that:

• EE have a right to submit a defence within 10 days
• The consumer then has a right to respond to EEs defence within 5 days.
• An adjudicator is appointed
• The adjudicator makes their decision – including (if EE have pleaded) if the case falls within the CISAS remit or not.
  • As per rule 2e – “The adjudicator alone has the power to determine whether or not the dispute falls within the scope of the Scheme”.

What CISAS have done on this occasion is entered into secret negotiations with EE and concluded that the new claim is the same as the old claim and invoked rule 2b to withdraw the claim. The term SECRET is appropriate as CISAS did not inform the customer until after EEs 10 day deadline had passed that they were in negation with EE and have refused pass details of the communications between EE and CISAS to them as an OPEN and INDEPENDENT process would require- and as per CISAS rule 4.3a “When CISAS receives the company’s response it will send a copy of it to the customer.”

I look forward to receiving your response as to how CISAS can continue as fair and independent ADR when it has so blatantly breached its own rules.

Regards



A word version is available from - http://fightmobileincreases.com/help-needed/

Maccadinho25

Sent RC

By the way i think Lynn Parkers email is incorrect in the above posts

jocklatic

Also sent the 2 above emails & will do rest of the posts to be sent soon as.

RandomCurve

Any takers?


https://jobs-ofcom.icims.com/jobs/1113/chief-executive/job


I would apply, but my application my fail on the part highlighted in Red as my idea of "effective engagement" would not be acquiesce to their demands!!!


Political acumen: Deep understanding of the public policy environment in which Ofcom and the companies it regulates operate in. Effective engagement with public institutions and stakeholders such as the UK Government, Parliaments, National Assemblies, European bodies, regulated businesses and other regulators.

Mikmonken

RandomCurve wrote: »

Any takers?


https://jobs-ofcom.icims.com/jobs/1113/chief-executive/job


I would apply, but my application my fail on the part highlighted in Red as my idea of "effective engagement" would not be acquiesce to their demands!!!


Political acumen: Deep understanding of the public policy environment in which Ofcom and the companies it regulates operate in. Effective engagement with public institutions and stakeholders such as the UK Government, Parliaments, National Assemblies, European bodies, regulated businesses and other regulators.

unfortunately it would mean you wouldn't be able to intervene as well

Mikmonken

OK so that's another 2 weeks of investigation time CISAS/CEDR have got.

This is now my 4th person if my chief exec had to handle a complaint directly because I hadn't answered a complaint properly i'd be out of a job.

RandomCurve

Mikmonken wrote: »

unfortunately it would mean you wouldn't be able to intervene as well

There would be nothing to intervene in - I would have told EE straight away that the change in T&Cs means they must comply fully with GC 9.6 and inform customers of their cancellation rights!!! Or better still I would retrospectively clarify that "Material Detriment" must mean "Any change" otherwise it would not be compliant with European Directives - so they can't increase prices without again fully complying with GC 9.6!
I would only be in the job for a couple of months - and then there would be nothing left to sort out!!!

RandomCurve

I have thought of another approach to take with CISAS - just awaiting some feedback and then will post here.