How to diplomatically tell someone to suck it up?

summerspring

I think this person has got emotional problems (or is a sociopath, as someone pointed out). You need to get rid as soon as possible.

DKLS

BigAunty wrote: »

What are the current employment rules that allow a company to terminate employment and the employee not being able to appeal against it at tribunal due to the period of time they spent with the company?

I agree he needs to be let go as he's amoral and brazen so quite likely to wreak havoc in the workplace in quite ingenious ways - staging incidents to ensure other employees get blamed for them, damaging equipment and systems and so forth.

In the real world it would be easy to get shut, and if they are in a probationary period, it would be a doodle to get shut, however I guess this is quasi-public sector where its much more difficult to get shut.

There was an incident at my wives work where a staff member was caught filling their car with stolen goods, they immediately went on sick leave with stress, anxiety and depression, funnily enough they were off for 5 months and 3 weeks came back for two days and is now off again so far up to 4 months.

No wonder the NHS is in a state, not only do they have to pay this thief for not working for 9 months but they also have to pay a temp to cover.

BigAunty

DKLS wrote: »

In the real world it would be easy to get shut, and if they are in a probationary period, it would be a doodle to get shut, however I guess this is quasi-public sector where its much more difficult to get shut.

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My guess is that this annoying employee is at sufficient remove from management that are required to make the terminating decision not to appreciate how terrible they are, plus the employee is skilled at manipulation.

DKLS

BigAunty wrote: »

My guess is that this annoying employee is at sufficient remove from management that are required to make the terminating decision not to appreciate how terrible they are, plus the employee is skilled at manipulation.

That makes things easier then, if they are skilled manipulators they can use those skills to get a new job.

suse*

You haven't mentioned if you do have an occupational health department. It might be worth having a look at this site, or giving them a call, to understand what counts as reasonable adjustments or not, and how to document them etc.

http://www.health4work.nhs.uk/

Depending how long A has had the condition could it be worth pointing them at something like an expert patients course. It is normally 6 weeks for 2 hours each week to help manage long term conditions and does cover things like diet etc. I think they do similar courses just for diabetics as well which might help with their confidence around the condition. They might be working from old advice for their condition, or not much advice at all, which might explain the lucosade etc. There is a lot more support now than there was 10-20 years ago.

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/doctors/Pages/expert-patients-programme.aspx

If they have been out of work for a long time and now realise they are stuck doing this now, the novelty has warn off could they just be having trouble adjusting. It could just be a mindset issue as now they see they can do certain things ok, they are just waiting for the self fulfilling prophecy to prove they can't do something due to the illness. If they have always been told, or just believed they can't do things, then suddenly realise they can, it can be hard as all that time they have wasted not doing things, is just their fault in a way and not the conditions. If they are self sabotaging now it is so they prove they were right all along, and are too sick to work then it isn't their fault it is the illness. Rather than taking responsibly for their own life and well being. Some people just blame everything that happens on external influences, as if the world is against them rather than realise they just aren't that special and everyone has to work for the life they want. I guess in an office where lots of people have conditions as well, that also shows up that if all these other people can get on ok why can't they.

So I guess you could smother them with kindness, extra training and support to give them the confidence they really can do the work. Then they don't have to hide in the back room or take longer breaks etc. It is just a waiting game then for their mindset to catch up that they can do this work now, and not to dwell on what has been missed and to make the most of the opportunity they now have.

Ames

Threads like this make me scared about what would happen if I were put on the work programme and made to work. Both from the effect it would have on me, and how others would view my actions.

Let me just put it from A's side (potentially).

He has stress and diabetes. He did well on his 13 week work placement.

A workplacement which had an end date. He knew he just had to hold it together for a few weeks. And if he messed up, then no matter because he'd never have to see the people again.

Knowing you can mess up makes it a lot easier not to mess up. I can relate this to my voluntary work. Knowing that I can't get into trouble for anything I do means I have a lot less stress and do better at it. Knowing that I can leave at any time reduces stress, much as I imagine having a 13 week end date does. I've generally found that my volunteer work has a time limit, beyond which the stress starts to rise as people expect more. So I move onto something new, or have a break.

I imagine having put various mental reassurances in place about doing a work trial, the reality of it becoming permanent is terrifying.

As for the diabetes, stress could mean they're managing it less well. They seem to be comfort eating (were they eating Greggs cakes every day during the trial?) which makes it harder/impossible to control. Stress could also make it so they just don't care. Until they realise they're having a hypo etc.

Now, I'm not saying that there's any excuse for their behaviour, just trying to show how it could have come about.

(Big) If I'm right about how their stress is affecting their actions, then they might not have as much insight and control as you're expecting them to have.

In which case, the problem is as much to do with a system that threw them into work with (seemingly) no support.

Or they're just a manipulative self centred git. Or some combination of the two.

Either way, it's probably best for everyone that they don't work there anymore.

GlasweJen

Ah, I just realised I've missed a part, A is only 20. Has done a few temp jobs before - most of them admin.

During probation As diet was pretty much the same as now minus the lucozade and mega amounts of insulin.

We do have an occupational health referral we can use but as long as A is walking about telling the world how well controlled they are then OH won't step in.

A clearly was faking today, possibly thinking it would detract from being caught on Facebook. The minute the paramedic said that there was no space in A&E A changed completely. The hysterics stopped, the shakes stopped and A literally stood up and shrugged! I'm going to have a word with the director tomorrow when A is off, I do think we need to get rid before it gets worse.

JIL

She seems like an attention seeker to me. She is taking up everyone's time when really you are all there to do a job.
Put her on a performance improvement measure. Tell her exactly what is expected of her. Invest some time in managing her. If she's not grateful for what she's got I am sure there are others out there who would be.
Spell it out, what you expect from her as regards her productivity and what behaviors she must deploy to achieve her work requirements. Its not unreasonable to ask that she does this in return for a wage.
She needs managing and boundaries setting.

mellymoo74

You dont need a to agree to occ health.
Do a management referral on the back of the incident which included calling out the emergency services (I am HSE have done this before)
Get HR involved in the process.

Caroline_a

Under 2 years of service you can get rid for wearing a loud shirt. No reasons necessary apart from 'unsuitable for the job'. So your reason would be lying about saying that you had allowed her to sit in admin on her phone. Job done.