Scottish independence

InvestInPoker

Scotland rugby legend reveals abuse over Scottish independence 'No' statement

David Sole, captain when Scotland beat England in historic 1990 Grand Slam decider, fears for future of country after Thursday's referendum

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/11099705/Scotland-rugby-legend-reveals-abuse-over-Scottish-independence-No-statement.html

Chadsman

Scottish Secretary Alistair Carmichael has re-opened the row over the status of Orkney and Shetland – insisting they could have a separate vote on their future.

...taking with them vast oil reserves.


https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/westminster/346557/scottish-independence-orkney-and-shetland-may-have-own-vote/


Bang goes Shangri la!
:rotfl:

scott_lithgows

InvestInPoker wrote: »

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/11099705/Scotland-rugby-legend-reveals-abuse-over-Scottish-independence-No-statement.html

Exactly why "Flower of Scotland" should be shelved after a No vote.


Scotland will mend itself on Saturday however the line "we can still rise now and be a nation again" will start the finger pointing.


Still expecting a rerun within 10 years though.

scott_lithgows

Archi_Bald wrote: »

I think it must be a first in history that the leader of a european nation has been identified as a liar by official representatives of 5 different EU countries on the same day. To suggest this is the fault of the no campaign would be really hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

Alex Salmond is the only one responsible if he is economical with the truth and if he makes promises he would be unable to deliver. People believing him are the only ones responsible for not seeing through his stories.

But I hear what you and Salmond say - everything that doesn't go Salmond's / the nationalists way is the fault of somebody else.

You are assuming that I am voting Yes,that,s between me and the ballot box.


I am trying to inform the rUK that voters don't believe politicians up here any more.


No campaign has been boring and early doors insulting to the Scots.It has improved but too little too late????

scott_lithgows

dunstonh wrote: »

You call it project fear. What do you call the yes campaign?

Project leap of faith
Project unrealistic expectations.

By its very nature, the No campaign cannot be as exciting. The No campaign is arguing for what we have. It cant make many promises of a better life because it is the life you have now. The yes campaign are making up all sorts with a projection of a wonderful life where services will be better, taxes will be lower and everything will be better. However, it is not backing up the fantasy with facts and figures. Edinburgh has no better track record of delivering public sector projects than Westminster. The anger some have with Westminster will just become anger aimed at Edinburgh in years to come. You replace one set of suits with another set of suits.

As for how the NHS came into, I don't know. Scotland has had control of its NHS spending for very many years and actually spends less per head on the NHS than England. Yet the yes campaign say the NHS is at threat unless you vote yes.

no argument here but add in the local thought process up here,


people with cash = No
people without or struggling = Yes


Battleground is the Labour voters



Worth looking at the No argument as the UK will hear it in a future EU referendum.

zeupater

scott_lithgows wrote: »

... I am trying to inform the rUK that voters don't believe politicians up here any more ...

I don't really follow the logic .... are you really saying that nobody up there believes any politician any more? .... surely that would mean that the 'Yes' politicians aren't believed and the bankers, businessmen, generals, civil servants, economists etc. have been providing the truth after-all and the untrusted politicians have simply spun this as being 'negative' and brushed aside ?

Now I am confused ......

jem16

dunstonh wrote: »

As for how the NHS came into, I don't know. Scotland has had control of its NHS spending for very many years and actually spends less per head on the NHS than England. Yet the yes campaign say the NHS is at threat unless you vote yes.

How the NHS came into it was a need to bounce back following the first televised debate when Alex Salmond came out worse after being booed on the lack of currency options and being ridiculed with bringing up space aliens and driving on the right. Polls that followed it saw a large swing to no.

The SNP and Yes campaign had to find a way of getting voters back on their side so resorted to the same scaremongering that they have continually accused the Better Together side of.

Unfortunately many Yes voters have been totally taken in by all the propaganda. Most of the Yes voters that I have talked to seem totally convinced that nothing will be worse and all will be so, so much better. "Westminster" are only bluffing and we'll keep the pound, have no borders and everything will just carry on as before with no downsides. When asked why an Independent Scotland would want its financial interests being decided by a foreign country with no input from Scotland, they just look at me as if I'm mad!

mollycat

jem16 wrote: »

How the NHS came into it was a need to bounce back following the first televised debate when Alex Salmond came out worse after being booed on the lack of currency options and being ridiculed with bringing up space aliens and driving on the right. Polls that followed it saw a large swing to no.

The SNP and Yes campaign had to find a way of getting voters back on their side so resorted to the same scaremongering that they have continually accused the Better Together side of.

Unfortunately many Yes voters have been totally taken in by all the propaganda. Most of the Yes voters that I have talked to seem totally convinced that nothing will be worse and all will be so, so much better. "Westminster" are only bluffing and we'll keep the pound, have no borders and everything will just carry on as before with no downsides. When asked why an Independent Scotland would want its financial interests being decided by a foreign country with no input from Scotland, they just look at me as if I'm mad!

Well said Jem.

YES voters appear determined to believe anything; other than the valid information being provided by numerous sources with regard to the economy.....that's "scaremonging".

Say anything to make sure we're "free" of Westminster, surely the biggest example of cutting off your nose to spite your face in the history of the world!!

evenasus

jem16 wrote: »

Most of the Yes voters that I have talked to seem totally convinced that nothing will be worse and all will be so, so much better. "Westminster" are only bluffing and we'll keep the pound, have no borders and everything will just carry on as before with no downsides. When asked why an Independent Scotland would want its financial interests being decided by a foreign country with no input from Scotland, they just look at me as if I'm mad!

Someone should sit them down and ask them if they know the meaning of independent.

A._Badger

mollycat wrote: »

Well said Jem.

YES voters appear determined to believe anything; other than the valid information being provided by numerous sources with regard to the economy.....that's "scaremonging".

Say anything to make sure we're "free" of Westminster, surely the biggest example of cutting off your nose to spite your face in the history of the world!!

Without (specific) reference to this particular issue, the credibility of 'experts' - notably economists, politicians, bankers and the like - is at an absolute low. It is hard to give any of them much credence and this is, no doubt, firmly in the minds of 'Yes' voters.

Personally, I'd put economists in the same league as end of the pier fortune tellers. I find it hard to blame some Scots for thumbing their noses at them.