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Tesco consider adding the points of discarded receipt as theft

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  • Yeah - a long bit of life you can't get back... Never mind, eh? Keep smiling! x

    Why would anybody voluntarily go onto an internet forum then immediately regret doing so?

    Worse, to then tell everybody.

    Surely it is much less effort to just not bother?

    How utterly bizarre.:huh:
  • bod1467
    bod1467 Posts: 15,214 Forumite
    Eewahwoowah/3woody likes to twist things to suit his argument, rather than deal with facts. I am safe in saying this because I am on ignore and he won't see this. ;)

    (Yes, I know, if someone quotes this then he may see it). :D
  • prowla
    prowla Posts: 13,984 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Cornucopia wrote: »
    Realistically, though, this is not a debate. It is like all mega-threads a back-and-forth sparring match between two irresolvable positions, based on two different understandings of the relevant law, and two different interpretations of some of the vaguer comments by the OP.

    We are vying for the virtual, moral high-ground. Nothing more.
    I disagree; the exact rule which covers the situation was pointed out to me, and I now accept that my interpretation was wrong and have changed my position.

    The fact is that the rules state in black and white that you can only claim points for purchases you have made, and so you cannot claim points from discarded receipts.

    The wording is quite clear and is not open to interpretation.
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,471 Forumite
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    edited 12 October 2014 at 9:32AM
    They are open to interpretation for a number of reasons:-

    1. Tescos' rules are not law. Just because something might be a breach of Ts&Cs, does not make it a crime.

    2. The defined penalty in the Ts&Cs (interpreted via contract law) is not what Tesco's imposed - they are in breach of their own Ts & Cs.

    3. The rule concerned may not cover the specific circumstances of the OP's scenario.

    4. The rule in question is routinely breached with Tescos' connivance in a variety of other scenarios. So we would need to understand what is special about the OP or his scenario to make draconian enforcement necessary, and in doing so, establish whether there is any form of discrimination involved, which might render the action unlawful.
  • prowla
    prowla Posts: 13,984 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Cornucopia wrote: »
    They are open to interpretation for a number of reasons:-

    1. Tesco's rules are not law. Just because something might be a breach of Ts&Cs, does not make it a crime.

    2. The defined penalty in the Ts&Cs (interpreted via contract law) is not what Tesco's imposed - they are in breach of their own Ts & Cs.

    3. The rule concerned may not cover the specific circumstances of the OP's scenario.
    The Clubcard is a membership scheme, and the written rules state that members "may have their points added manually up to 14 days after the transaction upon production of a valid receipt, providing the receipt belongs to the claiming member and is based on their personal spend"; therefore claiming points not based on your personal spend is against the rules which cover the membership scheme of which you are a signed up member.

    Those are the rules: you can't claim discarded points.

    You have to be a member to collect points, and thus you have to sign up to and agree to those T&Cs.

    There is no interpretation.
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,471 Forumite
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    edited 12 October 2014 at 9:44AM
    prowla wrote: »
    The Clubcard is a membership scheme, and the written rules state that members "may have their points added manually up to 14 days after the transaction upon production of a valid receipt, providing the receipt belongs to the claiming member and is based on their personal spend"; therefore claiming points not based on your personal spend is against the rules which cover the membership scheme of which you are a signed up member.
    You have ommitted the crucial part: "Members who forget to do this". So it doesn't apply to someone who hasn't forgotten, but has come by the points by some other means.
    Those are the rules: you can't claim discarded points.
    No. The rule purports to be that you can only claim points that are associated with a purchase made by you, personally. And yet Tesco's permits that to be breached in a variety of scenarios all the time.

    The Ts & Cs are effectively a highly one-sided contract created by Tesco's. They can put whatever detail they want in there, within the Law. So we have to assume that when they make basic drafting omissions, they are either intentional or negligent.

    And this is a good example: if they don't want people to claim discarded points, put that in the Ts & Cs - explicitly so there can be no doubt.
    There is no interpretation.
    There is always interpretation. The legal profession has grown plump on it over the centuries.
  • no1catman
    no1catman Posts: 2,973 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts I've been Money Tipped!
    Cornucopia wrote: »
    And this is a good example: if they don't want people to claim discarded points, put that in the Ts & Cs - explicitly so there can be no doubt.

    There is always interpretation. The legal profession has grown plump on it over the centuries.



    T & Cs Item 17
    Members must present their Clubcard card or key fob at the checkout in order to collect points for a transaction in store. Members who forget to do this may have their points added manually up to 14 days after the transaction upon production of a valid receipt, providing the receipt belongs to the claiming member and is based on their personal spend. Points may only be claimed for up to two receipts per day.

    The details in the T & Cs explicitly say, points can only be added on where the receipt relent to their personal spend - so how on earth can that be interpreted to mean it was ok to acquire the points from someone else's receipt.
    Tesco don't need to say you what you can't do, only what you can do.
    On the face of it the action for just two points could be OTT, on the other hand:
    - Security could have been on the 'look out' for 'womblers' and either he was just unlucky or they recognised him from previous occasions.


    I watched this thread with interest - we've had debates on Law, spurious analogies and even on grammar - I personally viewed 'taken' as the writers' shorthand for 'they asked me to accompany them to somewhere more private to discuss the matter'.


    Whilst the T & Cs explain what can happen via Clubcard, the Store aren't obliged to follow that themselves, Security (as has been said already) can ban people if they deem it necessary - though how they do that I don't know.
    Still, the poster, didn't face any other sanction AFAIK - e.g. points deduction, banned = no vouchers posted.


    All he needs to do - is write to the Store Manager asking for it to be reconsidered.
    I used to work for Tesco - now retired - speciality Clubcard
  • prowla
    prowla Posts: 13,984 Forumite
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    Cornucopia wrote: »
    You have ommitted the crucial part: "Members who forget to do this". So it doesn't apply to someone who hasn't forgotten, but has come by the points by some other means.

    No. The rule purports to be that you can only claim points that are associated with a purchase made by you, personally. And yet Tesco's permits that to be breached in a variety of scenarios all the time.

    The Ts & Cs are effectively a highly one-sided contract created by Tesco's. They can put whatever detail they want in there, within the Law. So we have to assume that when they make basic drafting omissions, they are either intentional or negligent.

    And this is a good example: if they don't want people to claim discarded points, put that in the Ts & Cs - explicitly so there can be no doubt.

    There is always interpretation. The legal profession has grown plump on it over the centuries.
    There is no law at play here, since it is a private members scheme for collecting points; there is no law governing that and the T&Cs quoted do not override any laws.

    Could you suggest how the legal profession might get involved in the T&Cs of the points system?
  • Kitty777
    Kitty777 Posts: 450 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 100 Posts Combo Breaker I've been Money Tipped!
    This seems a hell of a lot of hassle just for 2points :(
  • prowla
    prowla Posts: 13,984 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Kitty777 wrote: »
    This seems a hell of a lot of hassle just for 2points :(
    I fink the point is that the number of points is irrelevant.
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