Tesco consider adding the points of discarded receipt as theft

Armorica

Edwood_Woodwood wrote: »

Tesco's t&cs does not specifically prohibit this, read them.

Yes, they do

Members who forget to do this may have their points added manually up to 14 days after the transaction upon production of a valid receipt, providing the receipt belongs to the claiming member and is based on their personal spend.

Read them...

It's not really debatable. The OP did not spend the money to accrue the points. As a private store, Tesco are able to ban customers from their store - Tesco is a private company not a public service. The security guards - under contract to the store - are likely to have delegated authority from the management of the store to e.g. ban customers etc.

While 2 points seems petty, the OP didn't provide much context. If the store has had problems with people digging through bins or harrassing customers for receipts, this may provide a context for what seems disproportionate. Or it may simple be a case of dealing with minor breaches to prevent future bigger breaches.

trukdiver

Edwood_Woodwood wrote: »

Ok, so what if the t&c's did not state what you say? It would still be a free chocolate bar wrapper that was discarded in a tesco trolly.

Just like the tesco receipt where there are no t&c's stated on that receipt to not allow what the OP has done and which I believe, by law, should be stated on it to prohibit it.

It is not enough for a tesco security guard to just say it isn't allowed.

The important point is this, whether it was the original purchaser or the OP claiming the points appears to be irrelevant, Tesco expected to credit 2 points to somebody anyway.

There is not a loss, and whoever gained matters not in this instance.

It is certainly not an illegal fraudulent act, at best it would be a breach of Tesco's own t&c's, purely a civil matter.

And that is only if this type of instance is actually prohibited by tesco, which I've yet to see proved.

What's the (legal) difference between using points from a discarded receipt and spending a discarded 5p coin found in the car park?

Edwood_Woodwood

Armorica wrote: »

Yes, they do
Read them...

Members who forget to do this may have their points added manually up to 14 days after the transaction upon production of a valid receipt, providing the receipt belongs to the claiming member and is based on their personal spend.


It's not really debatable. The OP did not spend the money to accrue the points. As a private store, Tesco are able to ban customers from their store - Tesco is a private company not a public service. The security guards - under contract to the store - are likely to have delegated authority from the management of the store to e.g. ban customers etc.

While 2 points seems petty, the OP didn't provide much context. If the store has had problems with people digging through bins or harrassing customers for receipts, this may provide a context for what seems disproportionate. Or it may simple be a case of dealing with minor breaches to prevent future bigger breaches.

Armchair lawyers hey?

Why don't you read what I said in the first place?

"Specifically prohibit" this type of scenario, ie, the receipt was discarded. Unwanted.

And don't say this does not happen because I often don't bother claiming points myself if I just buy a loaf of bread or something and I dare say many customers do the same.

You have cut and paste a section about customers who forget to claim their points.

Forgetting to claim points is very different to not wanting to claim points.

Tesco's t&cs does not specifically prohibit what the OP has done although I guess it would come under the more wide ranging clause of "abusing" the card scheme.

However, it appears it does not as the appropriate action by Tesco in their t&cs is that they may withdraw the abusers card.

This did not happen, at least the OP did not mention this.

Instead they banned him.

I have no doubt that in another Tesco store the discarded points would simply have been added, no questions asked.

If you really believe that this is a fraud then please show me convictions that have previously taken place?

This would not get past first base and would be laughed out of court with the CPS undoubtedly admonished for bringing such a frivolous prosecution.

Cornucopia

It's worse than frivolous - the case is simply not made.

There is no loss to Tescos, therefore no "crime". For there to have been a loss, the points would have to be worth something, and Tescos have stated that they are worthless.

I don't understand why people want to give so much legal discretion to a mere supermarket.

Edwood_Woodwood

Cornucopia wrote: »

It's worse than frivolous - the case is simply not made.

There is no loss to Tescos, therefore no "crime". For there to have been a loss, the points would have to be worth something, and Tescos have stated that they are worthless.

I don't understand why people want to give so much legal discretion to a mere supermarket.

Well put!

The 2 points had no value as points have no value until they are converted into vouchers.

Nobody gains a nothing, and nobody loses a nothing.

Which just so happens to not satisfy the legislation that was ridiculously quoted earlier that a crime of fraud had occurred.

Armchair cyber lawyers!

Edwood_Woodwood

Armorica wrote: »

While 2 points seems petty, the OP didn't provide much context. If the store has had problems with people digging through bins or harrassing customers for receipts, this may provide a context for what seems disproportionate. Or it may simple be a case of dealing with minor breaches to prevent future bigger breaches.

If, buts and maybes do not reach the criminal standard to be satisfied for a conviction.

So it appears you actually agree that a fraud has not been committed but, rather, at best, a transgression of Tesco's clubcard t&cs?

lulu_92

Reminds me of this.

Now get out! You're banned from this Historical Society. You, and your children, and your children's children! ... for 3 months.

lucy03

Edwood_Woodwood wrote: »

If, buts and maybes do not reach the criminal standard to be satisfied for a conviction.

So it appears you actually agree that a fraud has not been committed but, rather, at best, a transgression of Tesco's clubcard t&cs?

There are two very different issues here, one is whether Tesco believe someone has breached their terms and conditions and the other is whether fraud has taken place.

Tesco believe their terms and conditions have been breached, which IMO they have as well, although that is of no consequence. They can do whatever they like including banning the individual from their store, ending their Clubcard membership or just removing the points. The shopper would have to take civil action against Tesco to reclaim them which they're both not likely to do and which they likely lose.

As for whether a fraud has taken place, technically IMO it has. The individual has attempted to use loyalty points belonging to someone else and they sought to deprive Tesco of them. However I can't imagine a court in the land would be interested in the CPS taking the individual to court for the sake of 2p (or even £10) because IMO it's not clear that there was any criminal intent.

lucy03

Edwood_Woodwood wrote: »

Well put!

The 2 points had no value as points have no value until they are converted into vouchers.

Nobody gains a nothing, and nobody loses a nothing.

Which just so happens to not satisfy the legislation that was ridiculously quoted earlier that a crime of fraud had occurred.

Armchair cyber lawyers!

No, as noted by another poster the Fraud Act makes it a criminal offence to obtain services or goods dishonestly. That is what happened here, but the CPS would have to prove intent and I can't imagine they'd be too interested given the sums of money. If someone had routinely got thousands of pounds from an organised campaign of collecting receipts then the situated might be very different.

Nobody gained a thing is clearly wrong. Someone has taken loyalty points meant for another customer and used them for themselves. So a customer has gained 2 points. Tesco has lost 2 points as they were only available to the person who purchased the shopping. They're not transferable because it's a marketing system.

Satisfy the legislation is also wrong IMO, the breach is clear and the legislation has been breached based on the terms and conditions. However the police and CPS are almost certainly not going to pursue the matter, but that's very different to the legislation not being breached. A crime of fraud can occur without any further action being taken.

lucy03

Cornucopia wrote: »

It's worse than frivolous - the case is simply not made.

There is no loss to Tescos, therefore no "crime". For there to have been a loss, the points would have to be worth something, and Tescos have stated that they are worthless.

I don't understand why people want to give so much legal discretion to a mere supermarket.

No, the crime is obtaining goods or services by deception, in this case someone tried to steal 2 points from Tesco worth a few pence. The crime would be the same if someone tried to get 10 million Tesco points added, the only difference is whether the police and CPS would pursue it through the courts. The more that is stolen the easier it is to prove intent.

Legal discretion is entirely irrelevant, there's no criminal case here anyone wants to pursue. Tesco reserve the right to ban people from their store who steal, whether that's goods or receipts. They can ban who they like from their stores, it's not legal discretion to decide how they operate their own loyalty scheme.