Tesco consider adding the points of discarded receipt as theft

Cornucopia

No. Tescos themselves state that the points are worthless. You cannot get around that detail. There are many ways in which Tescos could protect their points, including attributing a nominal value to them. But they don't.

For fraud or theft to have taken place, they would have to be worth something. It's a simple principle. Equally, no goods or services have changed hands.

If Tescos wanted to make a criminal case, they would have to wait until the point the OP tried to obtain something of value in return for the misappropriated points. Even then, IIUC Tescos convert points automatically without intervention by the customer, so they would need to explain why they did this if the points were believed to have been obtained fraudulently.

wealdroam

Cornucopia wrote: »

If Tescos wanted to make a criminal case, they would have to wait until the point the OP tried to obtain something of value in return for the misappropriated points.

Misappropriated points?

Looks dodgy to me.

Using that word makes it sound like fraud, doesn't it?

Cornucopia

If I put quotes around every word on here I don't really mean, I'd be here all night.

If you read my posts carefully, you find I'm not disputing that the points can be "misappropriated" (whatever that means for virtual points that exist solely in Tescos "imagination"). I'll even go so far as to say that the OP was probably going to try to do that.

The issue is that they are not worth anything. That's not merely my opinion, it's what Tescos state in the Ts & Cs.

Complicated - this legal stuff.

lucy03

Cornucopia wrote: »

No. Tescos themselves state that the points are worthless. You cannot get around that detail. There are many ways in which Tescos could protect their points, including attributing a nominal value to them. But they don't.

For fraud or theft to have taken place, they would have to be worth something. It's a simple principle. Equally, no goods or services have changed hands.

If Tescos wanted to make a criminal case, they would have to wait until the point the OP tried to obtain something of value in return for the misappropriated points. Even then, IIUC Tescos convert points automatically without intervention by the customer, so they would need to explain why they did this if the points were believed to have been obtained fraudulently.

No, the 2006 Fraud Act is quite clear in this. The question is solely regarding whether "making a gain for himself or another" and the Act details that this is not limited to just money or a monetary value.

Nominal values are irrelevant, they relate to different legislation on voucher schemes. The question being asked would be effectively, did they intend to deprive Tesco by deception. If someone had obtained large numbers of receipts it'd be difficult to defend their position.

Cornucopia

The problem there is that the gain has not happened yet.

The gain, such as it is, comes further down the timeline, probably 2 stages distant from where the OP would be at, having successfully gained the 2 points (which did not actually happen).

So we are looking at attempting to gain something that is worthless at the point of acquisition, whose value may become apparent later (or it may not).

That's not a case, it's a story for Watchdog.

the Act details that this is not limited to just money or a monetary value.

The expression in law is "money or money's worth", Worthless clubcard points are neither of those things.

lucy03

Cornucopia wrote: »

The problem there is that the gain has not happened yet.

The gain, such as it is, comes further down the timeline, probably 2 stages distant from where the OP would be at, having successfully gained the 2 points (which did not actually happen).

So we are looking at attempting to gain something that is worthless at the point of acquisition, whose value may become apparent later (or it may not).

That's not a case, it's a story for Watchdog.

There doesn't need to be a gain, there needs to be an intention. The legislation is clear, "intends, by making the representation", not "has made the representation".

Cornucopia

There is no gain. The points are worthless.

And in the OP's case, there was no representation...

Or as the legislation requires:

"(a) [He...] dishonestly makes a false representation, and"

prowla

Well, the question is whether those points were specifically awarded to the original purchaser, or whether they could pass them on and whether in discarding them they implicitly did so to whoever found them.

If the points were for a cash purchase, then there is no particular proof of a contract with a particular customer, and so they are up for grabs IMHO.

Of course, you might take the receipt away and claim them when you return another day...

What do Tesco's T&Cs say?

gik

Tescos....who are they? You are correct ...as Tescos don't actually exist. TESCO however do and are free to bar/ban anyone from their premises for whatever they reason they want.

Cornucopia

Has anyone informed Halford's or Morrison's, or even Sainsbury's?

and are free to bar/ban anyone from their premises for whatever they reason they want.

Yes... but it would be nice if they exercised that power with fairness, and if they didn't make legally questionable accusations whilst doing so.