US and European airlines halt Israel flights

cool_dude_2000

Because there are still people alive today who have sufferred the injustice of their farms destroyed, their homes smashed down and their lands occupied. There is noone around today who were inflicted from 3000 years ago.

im assuming that you live in the UK, so maybe you would like to give your home up to Scandinavia as im sure some Vikings lived there thousands of years ago. Or maybe to Italians when Romans colonised?

Dont you see how fraught this logic is. Maybe we should hand back America to the Native Indians or Australia to Aboriginies.

But i do agree that Jews and Palestinians have to learn to live side by side in peace. But as EQUALS. This nonsence about not giving Palestinians control of thier air space or borders is total crap.

Cardew

cool_dude_2000 wrote: »

Nope. Wrong again.

This conflict started when one country gave the people of another country, the land belonging to a third country.

.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say people of a specific religion were given the land belonging to a third country.


Members of that religion, particularly in the USA, ensure that Israel can continue to commit atrocities and steal ever more land, whilst receiving ever more foreign aid.


You cannot blame USA politicians, it would be political suicide to upset that religion.

Froggitt

NiftyDigits wrote: »

You are ignoring the fact that internationally agreed law states that you cannot inhabit land taken in war.
Israel has flouted that most basic tenet continuously.

If you look at the 1948 boundaries on your map and this image of the barrier.....





...its not that different. Your fourth slide is so far out of date as to be irrelevant.......Israel is pretty much back to 1948 boundaries, and I recall they wanted to give back an amount of land equivalent to that now inhabited by Israelis as part of a proposed peace process.


So your statement that Israel is flouting international law is not credible.

Froggitt

Cardew wrote: »

Israel can continue to commit atrocities and steal ever more land

Actually Israel has been giving up land as part of various peace efforts for the past thirty years.


There would be no death of innocent people on both sides if Hamas saw sense and went to the negotiations for peace.

NiftyDigits

Froggitt wrote: »

If you look at the 1948 boundaries on your map and this image of the barrier.....





...its not that different. Your fourth slide is so far out of date as to be irrelevant.......Israel is pretty much back to 1948 boundaries, and I recall they wanted to give back an amount of land equivalent to that now inhabited by Israelis as part of a proposed peace process.


So your statement that Israel is flouting international law is not credible.

Golan Heights?
If the West Bank and Gaza are under Israeli occupation, then whose land is it?


Apart from all of that.....

Communal violence between Jews and Arabs in British Palestine began spiraling out of control. In 1947, the United Nations approved a plan to divide British Palestine  into two mostly independent countries, one for Jews called Israel and one for Arabs called Palestine. Jerusalem, holy city for Jews and Muslims, was to be a special international zone.

The plan was never implemented. Arab leaders in the region saw it as European colonial theft and, in 1948, invaded to keep Palestine unified. The Israeli forces won the 1948 war, but they pushed well beyond the UN-designated borders to claim land that was to have been part of Palestine, including the western half of Jerusalem. They also uprooted and expelled  entire Palestinian communities, creating about 700,000 refugees, whose descendants now number 7 million and are still considered refugees.

Taking further land from the Palestinians. So why do you consider the 1948 lines legitimate?

If you don't consider that Israel flouts International law on a regular basis...you aren't reading properly.
They don't care, as many countries that talk the talk, also don't walk the walk.

Do you disagree with this synopsis?

Froggitt

NiftyDigits wrote: »

If the West Bank and Gaza are under Israeli occupation

They're not. Israel withdrew from West Bank and Gaza in 2005.

Froggitt

NiftyDigits wrote: »

So why do you consider the 1948 lines legitimate?

Because they are the borders recognised by the United Nations.

Froggitt

Lets talk about some land area comparisons.


Size of Israel - 10,000 square miles
Amount of land given up by Israel for peace - 38,000 square miles
Size of Wales - 8,000 square miles
Size of Arab countries - 8,400,000 square miles
Number of times you could fit Israel into the Arab countries - 840.
Amount of land offered by Arab countries to the Palestinians - 0.


And everyone has this fixation on a country about the size of Wales, under constant attack from a terrorist group who's charter is committed to the destruction of Israel.

NiftyDigits

Froggitt wrote: »

Because they are the borders recognised by the United Nations.

Really?? Show me.

NiftyDigits

Froggitt wrote: »

Lets talk about some land area comparisons.


Size of Israel - 10,000 square miles
Amount of land given up by Israel for peace - 38,000 square miles
Size of Wales - 8,000 square miles
Size of Arab countries - 8,400,000 square miles
Number of times you could fit Israel into the Arab countries - 840.
Amount of land offered by Arab countries to the Palestinians - 0.


And everyone has this fixation on a country about the size of Wales, under constant attack from a terrorist group who's charter is committed to the destruction of Israel.

Israel did not give up anything that it did not take unlawfully in the first place.

I'm glad that you mentioned the UNSC-List of Resolutions and International law.
Seems that Israel is happy enough to ignore UNSC and UNGA resolutions when it suits them.

The Israeli breaches of international towards Palestine and Palestinians and the responsibility of its ally

On 6 and 7 October 2012, took place in New York City (USA) the fourth session of the Russell Tribunal on Palestine 1 which focused on the responsibility of the United States of America (US) and the United Nations (UN) regarding the Israeli breaches of international law towards Palestine and Palestinians. There is now a situation in which Israel has achieved a status of immunity and impunity, facilitated by the US, despite its complete disregard for the norms and standards of international law.

The Tribunal has reached the following conclusions. 2

Israel’s violations of international law

As recalled by the Tribunal during its previous sessions, various well-documented acts committed by Israel constitute violations of several basic rules of international law to be found in international customary law, treaties, resolutions of the political organs of the UN, and the Advisory Opinion on the Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (ICJ decision on the Wall – A/ES-10/273).

• Violation of the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination as codified in Res. 1514 (XV) and 2625 (XXV), and recognized by the ICJ in its decision on the Wall.

• Violation of customary law, human rights norms (A/RES/194/III, § 11 and customary IHL as codified by the ICRC in 2005, Rule 132, International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights Art. 12(2)) by prohibiting the return of Palestinian refugees to their homes.

• Violation of the Security Council (UNSC) Resolutions requiring Israel to withdraw from the Occupied Territory (87 resolutions to this day) and the UN Charter which obliges the Member States to “carry out the decisions of the Security Council” (Art. 25).

• Violation of “[…] the principle of the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war” (UNSC Res. 242), as well as the Security Council Resolutions condemning the annexation of Jerusalem.3

• Violation of the Palestinian people’s right to their natural resources and wealth through the Israeli use of Palestinian agricultural land, the exploitation of Palestinian water reserves and preventing Palestinian access to more than 10% of their safe drinking water reserves (A/RES/64/292).

• Violation of international humanitarian law prohibiting:

• the establishment of Israeli settlements (4th 1949 Geneva Convention (GC), Art. 49 and 147), the expulsions of Palestinians from their territory (id.);

• the demolitions and expropriations of Arab houses and lands situated in the occupied country (1907 Hague Regulations, Art. 46 and 55);

• mistreatment, torture and prolonged administrative detention of Palestinians in Israeli prisons (4th GC, Art. 3, 32 and 78);

• non-compliance with the right of return of Palestinian refugees to their homes (A/RES/194/III, § 11 and customary IHL as codified by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) in 2005, Rule 132);

• military attacks against civilians, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks against Gaza and Palestinian refugees camps (customary international humanitarian law, ICRC Compendium Rules 1 and 14);

• collective punishment of the Palestinian population of Gaza, where the World Health Organization reports that life will not be sustainable by the year 2020 (Art. 33, GC);

• the terms articulated by the 2004 ICJ decision on the Wall.

• Violation of fundamental rights and freedoms such as freedom of movement, freedom of religion, right to work, to health, to education because of the Israeli Wall and check-points in the Occupied Territory which prevent Palestinian free access to their work place, school, health services and religious places (1966 Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, Art. 12 and 18; id. on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, Art. 6, 12, 13).

• Violation of the prohibition of discrimination based on national origin through Israeli policies and practices akin to Apartheid (2011 Cape Town findings of this Tribunal), which have denied Palestinians a functioning nationality both within Israel proper as well as the Occupied Territory and beyond.

Among these violations of international law, several of them are criminally sanctioned: war crimes,4 crimes against humanity,5 and the crime of Apartheid.6 Because of their systematic, numerous, flagrant and, sometimes, criminal character, these violations are of a particularly high gravity.

US complicity in Israel’s violations of international law

The Tribunal finds that Israel’s ongoing colonial settlement expansion, its racial separatist policies, as well as its violent militarism would not be possible without the US’s unequivocal support. Following World War II, especially in the context of the Cold War, and since then, the US has demonstrated a commitment to Israel’s establishment and viability as an exclusionary and militarized Jewish state at the expense of Palestinian human rights. While US Administrations initially offered moral support, since the Six Day War in 1967, the US has provided unequivocal economic, military, and diplomatic support to Israel in order to establish and maintain a qualitative military superiority over its Arab neighbors in violation of its own domestic law:

Economic Aid

The US’s unconditional support for an internationally recognized occupying power has made Israel the largest recipient of US foreign aid since 1976 and the largest cumulative recipient since World War II in the amount of approximately $115 billion. Significantly, the US provided its economic aid to Israel as a lump sum early in the fiscal year, and in the form of forgivable loans thereby making it exceptional among all of its foreign beneficiary counterparts. Aid to Israel has averaged about 25% of all U.S. foreign aid.

Diplomatic Support

Between 1972 and 2012, the US has been the lone veto of UN resolutions critical of Israel forty-three times. Of those, thirty concerned the Occupied Territory. In the General Assembly, despite the lack of a veto, US pressure is often brought to bear on Member States to prevent efforts to pass or enforce resolutions holding Israel accountable. As a result, the international impunity Israel enjoys for its consistent violations of the Geneva Conventions is largely attributable to external protection that its special relationship with the US affords.

Military Aid

Israel receives 60% of the US Foreign Military Financing (FMF) funding making it the largest recipient of US military funding. It now ranks as one of the top ten arms suppliers globally, and is the only recipient of US military aid allowed to invest up to 25% of that aid money in its own R&D and military production industry. Israel also receives funds from annual defense appropriation bills for joint US-Israeli missile defense programs that can exceed $100 million. None of these are subject to rigorous US law including the Arms Export Control Act, the Foreign Assistance Act, and the Mutual Bilateral Agreement between Israel and the US (1952). US government policy and specific laws passed by Congress require the US to maintain Israel’s qualitative military edge in the region. These collaborations with US military producers have helped fuel a continuing arms race in the region.

It is therefore the opinion of the Russell Tribunal that the US has committed the following violations of international and US law:

• By enabling and financing Israel’s violations of international humanitarian and human rights norms, the US is guilty of complicity in international wrongful acts per Article 16 of the International Law Commission’s Draft Articles on Responsibility of States and therefore also responsible for the violations endured by the Palestinian people as well as the affront to the international system;

• By obstructing accountability for violations of the Geneva Conventions, the US has failed to meet its obligations as a High Contracting Party per Common Article 1;

• In continuing to provide economic support for settlement expansion despite occasional expressions of disapproval, the US is also in violation of the International Court of Justice’s jurisprudence, particularly paragraph 163(D) in its decision on the Wall;

• By stonewalling an international resolution to the conflict by abusing its veto power within the Security Council and its political/economic/diplomatic clout in the General Assembly, the US is in violation of several provisions of the UN Charter, in particular Article 24;

• By failing to condition military aid to Israel based on its compliance with human rights norms and strict adherence to the law of self-defense, the US is in violation of its own domestic law.

In 2011, the Palestinian leadership applied for admission to the UN.7

The statehood bid, as it is more commonly known, raises some controversy amongst Palestinians as well because of its failure to represent the collective will of a national body, two-thirds of whom live beyond the Occupied Palestinian Territory.

The accession of Palestine to a status of “non-member State observer” 8 afford Palestine jurisdiction within the International Criminal Court and consequently access to measures for accountability. 9

The Russell Tribunal condemns this cynical conduct on the part of the United States and reiterates the need for criminal accountability for the abuses committed in Gaza in addition to the ongoing settlement enterprise, and the forced population transfer of Palestinians…

Due to the length constraints, we are unable to present

Notes

1www.russelltribunalonpalestine.com - The Russell Tribunal on Palestine (RToP) is a court of the people, a Tribunal of conscience created in reaction to injustices and violations of international law that are not dealt with by existing international jurisdictions, or that are recognized but continue with complete impunity due to the lack of political will of the international community.
2 Invitations were extended to the US and Israel, both of whom failed to respond.
3The Tribunal notes that the Occupied Palestinian Territory refers to the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, as well as the Gaza Strip since Israel’s 2005 withdrawal did not end the occupation of the 360 square-mile territory. This appears from the fact that Israel still maintains effective control, per Article 42 of the Hague Regulation, of all air and maritime spaces of the Gaza Strip, as well as control along the land border and inside the Gaza Strip, a 300 m wide buffer zone (600 and 1500 m wide in some places) which is a no-go zone depriving Gaza of 35 % of its cultivable areas.
4 Israeli settlements, inhumane treatment, torture, indiscriminate attacks, home demolitions, forced population transfer, collective punishment, 1996 ILC Draft Code of crimes against the peace and security of mankind, Art. 20; 4th GC, Art. 147, Rome Statute, Art. 8.
5 Persecution defined by the International Criminal Court (ICC) Statute cited here as expression of international custom, Art. 7.
61973 UN Convention, Art. 1 ; on Apartheid and persecution, see 2011 Cape Town findings of this Tribunal.
7The US made it clear that it would veto this application in the Security Council notwithstanding its long-standing support for a two-state solution. To avoid the embarrassment of contradicting its own policy by using its veto power, the US lobbied other member states of the Security Council to oppose the Palestinian application for admission, explaining that the solution to the Palestinian-Israel conflict is not a matter of international law or multilateral resolution, but instead a matter of politics. As a result the Palestine application for admission to the UN lapsed.
8 On 29th November 2012, Palestine acceded to the status of “Observer State – Non member of the UN” following the adoption of a resolution by the UN General Assembly by 138 votes in favour, 41 abstentions and 9 against (Canada, Czech Republic, Israel, Marshall Island, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Panama and USA).
9 The US opposed this move principally because it will permit the ICC to exercise criminal jurisdiction over those Israeli politicians and generals responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity in the course of Operation Cast Lead.

Notwithstanding....I've made my point.
My issue was with your condoning of Israel killing innocent civilians with impunity.

As long as Israel behaves in that way, the conflict will never end.