How would the UK fare without Scotland?

zagubov

CLAPTON wrote: »

so lets be absolutely clear.


you are saying, from your extensive and deep knowledge of Scottish voters, is that they are so stupid they are only influenced by spin and not substance.
Presumably that is why you worship the great leader and his refusal to discuss any matter of substance.


If you are right then I suppose that does explain the choice of indefensible Flower Of Scotland.

Whoah there! Was this meant to be posted on a different thread?
I know if posting non-sequiturs was a Commonwealth Games sport, you'd have a gold medal, but there's no way you can get from Shake's post to yours by any traceable route at all.

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

Whoah there! Was this meant to be posted on a different thread?
I know if posting non-sequiturs was a Commonwealth Games sport, you'd have a gold medal, but there's no way you can get from Shake's post to yours by any traceable route at all.

maybe you should read what Shake actually posted.


e.g.

Can't tell you what a gaffe this one is. At this point in time in the campaign...the 'never be allowed' comment.

and

The 'never be allowed' thing though just smacks of the very thing Scots do not ever want to be told from Whitehall.

etc


clearly making the point that it was a poor tactics and assuming this will be bad for the better together people.
the Scottish voters will resent being 'told from Whitehall'; and of course poor Scots voters are insufficiently bright just to bin the nonsense.

antrobus

zagubov wrote: »

Dunno. The Scots certainly know the UK government has been misleading them about oil for forty years ......

In what way have the UK government been specifically misleading the Scots "about oil for forty years"?

zagubov wrote: »

...so why should they trust anyone outside Scotland on this matter now, particularly from London-based media?

Because it's just the tiniest bit 'racist' to even suggest that you shouldn't "trust anyone outside Scotland", now isn't it?

zagubov wrote: »

...
They may well wonder who commissioned this article......

I believe that the article in question was commissioned by a company that is a member of the FT Group, in the same way as the article referred to by Shakethedisease was commissioned by a company that is a member of the FT Group.

zagubov wrote: »

..After media nonsense like the Skintland article and all the Project Fear smoke and mirrors why would they take this any more seriously?.....

I don't know. Why don't you tell us precisely were John McDermott went wrong in his article?

zagubov wrote: »

....The main party backing YES is led by an oil economist with good popularity ratings.....

This would just be an example of two logical fallacies tolled into one; an appeal to character combined with an appeal to popularity.

zagubov wrote: »

...It might just seem that the "Too poor" part of the Too poor, too wee and too stupid trope is getting another airing.

You're certainly using it as an excuse to avoid debate.:)

ruggedtoast

zagubov wrote: »

They withheld a confidential report on North Sea oil resources for decades while continually portraying the oil as running out imminently.

Do you seriously think companies like Cuadrilla are allowed to go digging up the home counties while Tory voting WI members literally chain themselves to bulldozers in hysterical distress, while there is actually vast amounts of North Sea oil to still extract?

It's running out mate.

Conrad

I posted this in the other thread to;


Scots, remember this is a historic opportunity to grasp your autonomy with both hands, to put into place local decision making for all local issues.


You have it in your power to capture proud independence for a thousand years hence so please do not be swayed by passing balance sheet arguments.


You are a capable highly innovative people perfectly able to steer the ship, you are not about to simply give up at the first challenge that comes your way.


No challenge is insurmountable, none beyond your wits.


Do not be taken in my moronic narratives that make use of words such as 'isolated'. Instead think for yourselves, think how you do not view Australia or Japan as somehow isolating and in need of amalgamation with other nations.

Conrad

CLAPTON wrote: »

so lets be absolutely clear.


you are saying, from your extensive and deep knowledge of Scottish voters, is that they are so stupid they are only influenced by spin and not substance.
Presumably that is why you worship the great leader and his refusal to discuss any matter of substance.


If you are right then I suppose that does explain the choice of indefensible Flower Of Scotland.

You just utterly miss understand the whole dynamic.


For you there needs to be an answer to every potential problem but of course anyone with a functioning intellect knows this is impossible as the other side would counter every solution ad-infinitum and in any event you cannot negotiate in advance.


SO, it comes down to something much deeper and more fundamental than the transitory house keeping arguments; A matter of grasping ones full autonomy for all time backed by your confidence in the Scots ability to self manage.


You will see the UK Govt all of a sudden become a willing and friendly ally as soon as independence is being celebrated. Cameron would set aside all differences and work in the common good.
If he caused some sort of catastrophe for Scotland this would impact his popularity hugely. It could also be detrimental to the RUK. It would be in no ones interest not to find an amicable rapid settlement.

You just need to think about the really big picture and how history is made by those with courage and conviction, not fearful bean counters.

CLAPTON

Conrad wrote: »

You just utterly miss understand the whole dynamic.


For you there needs to be an answer to every potential problem but of course anyone with a functioning intellect knows this is impossible as the other side would counter every solution ad-infinitum and in any event you cannot negotiate in advance.


SO, it comes down to something much deeper and more fundamental than the transitory house keeping arguments; A matter of grasping ones full autonomy for all time backed by your confidence in the Scots ability to self manage.


You will see the UK Govt all of a sudden become a willing and friendly ally as soon as independence is being celebrated. Cameron would set aside all differences and work in the common good.
If he caused some sort of catastrophe for Scotland this would impact his popularity hugely. It could also be detrimental to the RUK. It would be in no ones interest not to find an amicable rapid settlement.

You just need to think about the really big picture and how history is made by those with courage and conviction, not fearful bean counters.

100% agree that the dynamic has nothing to do with the economics.


SNP isn't fighting for 'full autonomy for all time ' as the SNP are desperate to immediately give away full autonomy to the EU.
The SNP don't want control over their own currency, nor to set their own interest rates or their own immigration policy etc.


The whole dynamic is about the huge inferiority complex and lack of self confidence that sadly shows itself in their hatred of the English.
So, separation from the English at any cost and then give anyway any autonomy asap.

ruggedtoast

Conrad wrote: »

I posted this in the other thread to;


Scots, remember this is a historic opportunity to grasp your autonomy with both hands, to put into place local decision making for all local issues.


You have it in your power to capture proud independence for a thousand years hence so please do not be swayed by passing balance sheet arguments.


You are a capable highly innovative people perfectly able to steer the ship, you are not about to simply give up at the first challenge that comes your way.


No challenge is insurmountable, none beyond your wits.


Do not be taken in my moronic narratives that make use of words such as 'isolated'. Instead think for yourselves, think how you do not view Australia or Japan as somehow isolating and in need of amalgamation with other nations.

The SNP doesnt want to stride off to majestic independence for a thousand years though. They want to ostensibly remain part of all the benefits of the UK, but just opt out of all the obligations they don't like as and when it pleases them.

They can fck off.

antrobus

CLAPTON wrote: »

....SNP isn't fighting for 'full autonomy for all time ' as the SNP are desperate to immediately give away full autonomy to the EU.
The SNP don't want control over their own currency, nor to set their own interest rates or their own immigration policy etc.
.....

Agreed. Scotland can't possibly have "full autonomy" if that same Scotland has entered into a monetary union with the UK.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The SNP doesnt want to stride off to majestic independence for a thousand years though. They want to ostensibly remain part of all the benefits of the UK, but just opt out of all the obligations they don't like as and when it pleases them.

They can fck off.

That's putting it rather bluntly. Fortunately (perhaps) the Civil Service have centuries of experience in expressing such sentiments in words of a more diplomatic nature.:)

sss555s

ruggedtoast wrote: »

They can fck off.

Nice to see you turning sides and hoping for a YES vote.

antrobus wrote: »

Agreed. Scotland can't possibly have "full autonomy" if that same Scotland has entered into a monetary union with the UK.

If the UK wants Scotland to take on £100bn+ of it's debts (which we seem to be willing to do) then Scotland is entitled to a portion of the "security" we have helped to build up and pay for.

So it's nothing to do with "full autonomy".