EE/Orange/T-Mobile - Reclaim ALL price rises AND cancel contract re T&C change

EFC_1878

Mikmonken wrote: »

Did you send this email Post 4?[/URL]

They've clearly sent you a generic price rise email from the prise rise forum, which is what they have done to the rest of us, yours just has more info about the price rise.

You will need to follow up this email though, as you have not been referred to CISAS and will need to get this referral to undertake the next stage. something along the lines of...

Dear Mr Swantee,

thank you for your email of the XXX from Jim Phillips, however unfortunately you seem to have failed to address either of the points raised in my email of the 10th August 2014.

I am aware that over recent months there have been a number of claims against EE regarding price rise increase, however on reading my original email, attached for ease of reference, you will note that the 2 points raised in my original email are not the questions to the answer you replied.

I trust having the opportunity to review my original email you will accept agree to honour the requests laid out.

I wait in anticipation to your response.

Kind regards

Mr xxx

or to something of that effect, you never go you might get lucky and get what you ask for :rotfl:

So I followed up the original email I sent with the one you helped me with. Today I received this reply:

Case Reference: XXXXXXX
Account Number: XXXXXXXXX

Dear Mr X,

Thank you for your recent response addressed to Olaf Swantee, Chief Executive Officer, EE. Whilst I appreciate you have asked for the personal intervention of Olaf, please be assured that Olaf is fully aware of all the issues you have raised and my response.

The Executive Office is empowered to deal with all the correspondence addressed to Olaf and the Board of Directors. A full report is also completed on each contact received in their names. As I previously dealt with your query, your further email has been passed to me for response. After fully reviewing my previous decision I confirm the position is unchanged.

As the increase is not of material detriment and it is the customer's responsibility to fully read the Terms and Conditions prior to signing them, I must advise that EE cannot fulfil your request for reimbursement.

As advised in my previous email, any early termination of your agreement would incur an early termination fee, which currently stands at £XXX.XX If you still wish me to supply you with a PAC, please respond to this email and I will provide one for you. However, as advised above there will be an early termination fee levied to your account.

I trust this is satisfactory.




Yours sincerely



Jim Phillips
Executive Office, EE

Where do I go from here? Do I have to wait for them to refer me to CISAS?

Mikmonken

EFC_1878 wrote: »

So I followed up the original email I sent with the one you helped me with. Today I received this reply:



Where do I go from here? Do I have to wait for them to refer me to CISAS?

you just need to preservere, it's frustrating but you either need to wait 8 weeks or get the referral. try sending this.

Dear Mr Swantee,

Re Phone number - Account :


Thank you for your email, received on the, from , copy attached for your reference.

Unfortunately the response falls short of a full response requested that addresses ALL of the points raised in my original email and as such I find the level of customer service unacceptable due to the number of issues that have remained unaddressed.

1. To request the all sums taken from my account which are over and above the originally agreed contract price are refunded for any price increase that has been applied to any contract that I have held with EE at any time over the six years. My request is based on my belief that the price variation clause which EE have relied upon would fail the test of fairness under several headings of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations1999 (UTCCRs) the list below is not exhaustive:
1 The price variation clause was not clearly and adequately bought to my attention at point of sale
2 the price variation clause is not narrowly nor precisely defined
3 due to the constituent elements of the contract an RPI increase cannot be a true reflection of cost increases incurred by EE, and therefore the price increase has been used to suit EEs own needs which is strictly forbidden under the UTCCRs
5 the price clause is discretionary – there is no reason given in the contract as to the circumstances in which a price rise can be applied
6 EE cannot pass the risk burden of inflation to me in a short term contract
7 EE have informed Ofcom that they can predict future cost increase with some certainty - I therefore have no way of knowing what inflationary factors were already taken of account of.

2. Secondly I request that this email is deemed as my 30 day notice period for a Penalty Free contract cancellation following EEs change in T&Cs which was effective 26 March 2014. As the change clearly purports to give EE the right to increase my contract price by a larger amount than was previously the case (Exclusive use of RPI in the new contract rather than lower inflation rates such as CPI as was the case previously) and therefore under both the UTCCRs and Ofcom GC 9.6 I am entitled to cancel my contract penalty free and I request a PAC code is provided by return. I would further point out that I believe the notification received via text of the change in T&Cs is so misleading in its phrasing that the true implication of the change was not clearly and adequately bought to my attention and is evidence of EE not applying the level of duty of care expected from a company of its size and experience and demonstrates a lack of operating in a sprit of Good Faith.

To date you have only provided the following response which fails to appropriately address the points raised in both my previous emails.

Your response revolve around the following statement “I am sorry you are unhappy with the recent Price Increase” and proceed to talk about RPI.”

If you had reviewed and read either of my previous emails you will note that I am requesting a back dating of all increase relating to contracts held over the last 6 years, and also penalty free contract cancellation relating to the changes in terms and conditions.

I look forward to receiving my PAC (penalty free) and a penalty free cancellation back dated to xxxxxxxxx when I first contacted you on this matter.

Should EE not consider this to be an appropriate action then please clearly articulate why this is not the case with reference to each of the points above AND provide a deadlock reference in order that I can pursue a claim via CISAS.

Any response which fails to address the specific points above would not be acceptable to me and will be used as evidence of EE’s lack of duty of care and poor customer service.

Regards

Mikmonken

EFC_1878 wrote: »

So I followed up the original email I sent with the one you helped me with. Today I received this reply:



Where do I go from here? Do I have to wait for them to refer me to CISAS?

The bit that really annoys me in all of this and completely shows their disregard for their own contract, is the actual statement in there that says.

"Is of material detriment to you" the only person who is able to determine that is in fact you. it makes no odds to this case as they will ignore that anyway. an EE contract is a document written to look like it complies with legislation, but i very much doubt anyone has managed to leave the contract without a real fight.

Maccadinho25

RandomCurve wrote: »

You can send 1 email with attachments called Appendix 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 etc - these should relate to the previous price rises and include the welcome letter, you also can attach Appendix 2.0, 2.1, 2.2 etc which relate to the change in T&Cs (this part of the claim there may only be the appendix I have provided and 2 emails)

Thanks. I may have ballsed up! Not sure. The two attachments i added for app 2 were the same as the ones under App 1 which was the email i sent to EE from this thread and then their response to me. So essentially ive duplicated the appendixes for app and app 2 - ive completely confused myself! Should i have been sending anything from the last case on the old thread? Sorry for sounding stupid and wasting your time - its gone now either way but if i need to send anything else i still have a few days. Cheers

Mikmonken

Maccadinho25 wrote: »

Thanks. I may have ballsed up! Not sure. The two attachments i added for app 2 were the same as the ones under App 1 which was the email i sent to EE from this thread and then their response to me. So essentially ive duplicated the appendixes for app and app 2 - ive completely confused myself! Should i have been sending anything from the last case on the old thread? Sorry for sounding stupid and wasting your time - its gone now either way but if i need to send anything else i still have a few days. Cheers

You'll be fine, they might just query it.

The backdated price increases sounds is more the letter from Orange you may have. You don't actually need an appendix so what you've sent might not be relevant but it won't do any harm.

Case two as RC said relates to the emails you've sent and received you've done that or so it sounds.

During my first case I ballsed up what I was asking for so I sent a follow up email clarifying what I had done and asking them to amend my application.

They did that for me, so you if you're worried you could always send an email saying please ignore my previous appendices they were sent in error the attached are the relevant docs...

Maccadinho25

Mikmonken wrote: »

You'll be fine, they might just query it.

The backdated price increases sounds is more the letter from Orange you may have. You don't actually need an appendix so what you've sent might not be relevant but it won't do any harm.

Case two as RC said relates to the emails you've sent and received you've done that or so it sounds.

During my first case I ballsed up what I was asking for so I sent a follow up email clarifying what I had done and asking them to amend my application.

They did that for me, so you if you're worried you could always send an email saying please ignore my previous appendices they were sent in error the attached are the relevant docs...

Thanks I sent RCs template of app 1 and 2 outlining the two matters (after amending the red and removing the grey etc), attached my email to EE from the opening posts and then their response to goto CISAS along with a scan of my "welcome letter" so i think im covered. Even if ive referenced them wrong its there at least so ill see how it goes! How RC goes through all this and stays sane i dont know

barrowvian

All checked, submitted and ready for Round 2 with EE

Thanks RC and Mikmonken for the time and advice you guys are putting in to this.

Mikmonken

So on Monday we should find out whether the first of the new CISAS claims gets accepted.

For anyone who's just got their referral to CISAS from EE and not raised their claim yet, you may want to hold off till Monday when we know whether what we've submitted will be accepted or whether we need to rejig the initial case a little/pressure OFCOM a little bit, for those that have already sit tight and keep your fingers crossed for good news.

g6jns_2

Mikmonken wrote: »

you just need to preservere, it's frustrating but you either need to wait 8 weeks or get the referral. try sending this.

Dear Mr Swantee,

Re Phone number - Account :


Thank you for your email, received on the, from , copy attached for your reference.

Unfortunately the response falls short of a full response requested that addresses ALL of the points raised in my original email and as such I find the level of customer service unacceptable due to the number of issues that have remained unaddressed.

1. To request the all sums taken from my account which are over and above the originally agreed contract price are refunded for any price increase that has been applied to any contract that I have held with EE at any time over the six years. My request is based on my belief that the price variation clause which EE have relied upon would fail the test of fairness under several headings of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations1999 (UTCCRs) the list below is not exhaustive:
1 The price variation clause was not clearly and adequately bought to my attention at point of sale
2 the price variation clause is not narrowly nor precisely defined
3 due to the constituent elements of the contract an RPI increase cannot be a true reflection of cost increases incurred by EE, and therefore the price increase has been used to suit EEs own needs which is strictly forbidden under the UTCCRs
5 the price clause is discretionary – there is no reason given in the contract as to the circumstances in which a price rise can be applied
6 EE cannot pass the risk burden of inflation to me in a short term contract
7 EE have informed Ofcom that they can predict future cost increase with some certainty - I therefore have no way of knowing what inflationary factors were already taken of account of.

2. Secondly I request that this email is deemed as my 30 day notice period for a Penalty Free contract cancellation following EEs change in T&Cs which was effective 26 March 2014. As the change clearly purports to give EE the right to increase my contract price by a larger amount than was previously the case (Exclusive use of RPI in the new contract rather than lower inflation rates such as CPI as was the case previously) and therefore under both the UTCCRs and Ofcom GC 9.6 I am entitled to cancel my contract penalty free and I request a PAC code is provided by return. I would further point out that I believe the notification received via text of the change in T&Cs is so misleading in its phrasing that the true implication of the change was not clearly and adequately bought to my attention and is evidence of EE not applying the level of duty of care expected from a company of its size and experience and demonstrates a lack of operating in a sprit of Good Faith.

To date you have only provided the following response which fails to appropriately address the points raised in both my previous emails.

Your response revolve around the following statement “I am sorry you are unhappy with the recent Price Increase” and proceed to talk about RPI.”

If you had reviewed and read either of my previous emails you will note that I am requesting a back dating of all increase relating to contracts held over the last 6 years, and also penalty free contract cancellation relating to the changes in terms and conditions.

I look forward to receiving my PAC (penalty free) and a penalty free cancellation back dated to xxxxxxxxx when I first contacted you on this matter.

Should EE not consider this to be an appropriate action then please clearly articulate why this is not the case with reference to each of the points above AND provide a deadlock reference in order that I can pursue a claim via CISAS.

Any response which fails to address the specific points above would not be acceptable to me and will be used as evidence of EE’s lack of duty of care and poor customer service.

Regards

This reply is quite brilliant! Keep up the good work.

RandomCurve

I may not be able to post for a week, but I will be keeping an eye on the forum. I don't think we are expecting any "time limited" actions just yet.