Best wellyboot forward. Pips frugal edible garden adventures.

ZTD

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Sorry Z I didn't mean to offend, if I did, apologies.

"Offend" is overused, I am annoyed on said bloke's behalf, given he is not able to defend himself.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Please step away from the goat (or mammal of choice) nice to see you.

And you too. :wave:

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Maybe sexism/sexist was the wrong word (?) being dyslexic is a curse sometimes as I struggle to find the right words, which isn't an excuse so much as a fact. In fact it was my 'other half' who used the 'S' word, he's worried that if an initial conversation to find out about a job involved gender, he was concerned that it wasn't a place he'd be comfy with me working.

If that mention in passing is giving cause for concern, you may struggle to find anywhere comfortable to work.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

I do think he (Boss person) perhaps shouldn't have mentioned it to be honest.

Would you really have preferred him not to mention it was hard physical labour?

"Do you know that cushy office job you thought you were getting?"




SURPRISE!!

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

I was a bit surprised someone would be so blunt on the phone.

Obviously he trusts you, and obviously he prefers to tell the truth of things (as he sees it). However, "he is blunt on the phone" therefore "he's prejudiced against women" is stretching things a bit far.

The best definition of blunt I've heard, is brutal honesty. Since you don't want that, you're left with:

1. Not being told anything at all.
2. Being told sweet lies.

Which do you prefer?

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Then again, if they're busy, reliability and ability should really be the crux of the matter, he possibly phrased it a bit wrong.

If the employee in question can't handle the physical work involved (and it seems he's encountered a number that can't), then they're not reliable, doesn't matter who they are - man, woman or chipmunk. (Other small mammals are available...)

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

As I'm under 5ft in real life, I hope they don't have a 'height' policy.

They will have a grading policy. You'll start off as "Garden Gnome", move through "Gnome" and achieve the dizzying heights of "Hobbit" after a few years...

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

but I do need a stool to perform some tasks..........I do not deny this.

Everyone does. Doesn't matter how tall you are, there's always something higher. Stepladders and stools should be all part of the job.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Mind you looking at a 5 ft lunatic working in a largely male dominated agri/hort industry, (no prejudice intended) I'm use to a bit of hearty banter regarding abilities of short folks.

I promise I shall not pre-judge and I'm not much of a shrieker. I might just be too far down the birthday candles to be of much use which happens to us all.

Or you may not. I would suggest however, that you start near the end of the week unless what you do now is very physical.

You'll have muscles you've never heard of screaming at you in agony after the first day or so. Lying in bed/a warm bath over the weekend can help...

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

I'm going along for a chat, we'll see what the outcome is either way.

Good luck!

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Again sorry if I offended, twasn't meant to if I got me words wrong.

I'm not offended - don't worry.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Still got sun here, although I hear its not out in the west.

:rotfl:

That's a cheezy grin...

DawnW

I was until recently a senior manager in a large organisation, and I can assure you that a comment such as that described, made by someone responsible for recruiting to a post to a potential job applicant, could certainly be considered sexist. If it resulted in a complaint, which would be likely, frankly, or even if it were simply overheard by others, the person who made the remark would have to be spoken to, and possibly referred for additional training. It is unprofessional if nothing else. Had I made such a comment myself, I, as a senior employee, would be looking at disciplinary action, as it would be expected that I should know better.

Hopefully in this case it was just a throwaway remark made without thinking, but even so, it was out of place. Discrimination of any kind in the workplace is never OK. And concerns about it should not be dismissed as 'shrieking' - would anyone call it that if it were, for example, a racial issue :eek:

Hope your interview goes well Pippi. Only you can decide whether or not it is the kind of place you would like to work

Pippilongstocking

Thanks to both. And, fingers crossed later today please.

Z perhaps I'm too much of a pragmatist I'd assume that its absolutely implicit that its hard work from the very nature of the post regardless of gender. I think its essentially, largely, skilled heavy labouring which I have no issue with.

Gardening is hard graft, perhaps some previous candidates haven't been aware of the nature of that, seeing it as a soft option. I just think perhaps the term of phrase in an initial phone enquiry could have been a bit better, I got what he meant. When I said he shouldn't have mentioned it I meant the gender of the folks previously he'd employed which were not up to mustard, not the hard work.

TBH If he'd said 'we've had people who couldn't manage it before cos its backbreaking work', I think that might have been a bit more professional. That's all. I'm doubtful that everyone that couldn't cut the mustard was actually of one gender, I know plenty of less able, other mammals too.

Anyhow's, my comments weren't meant to annoy, I promise.

In the words of Jack Nicholson 'I can (sometimes) handle the truth' [cheezy grin central]

Although I do like the idea of working on a chain gang, paid exercise, with muscles to boot! How exciting would that be. Although it would of course depend on the pay and the hours and other stuff too..............and I'll remember to order bath oil, good call, I'm still pretty physical at home but its different when you're working with other folks, the pace can be different

However, one thing I am very concerned about, I'm already at hobbit status at home I'm not sure how much I'd like to start at gnome level again. That is something to think about.

I talked to my current job share (j/s) on the phone about it today. His opinion was very similar to yours Dawn, being a peep who previously worked in middle management for a LA his (and TRG's) reactions were entirely the same.

He (j/s) also shared that being of shorter stature he often gets similar comments regarding his ability, also not cool, preconceptions are rife, it would seem regardless of gender.

I'm not so shrinking a violet to assume working life will always be entirely the way I'd like it to all the time, but his words were (job share), exactly like both of yours, see how you feel when you get there.

I do need something physically active to balance up the writing, which I mind on I did reply at the time, so I must have been reading your mind Z.

I may be unemployable and better suited to self-employment after all this time, who knows. Its interesting finding out.

Pippilongstocking

My bigger issue right now is finding some unmuddy clothes to look vaguely human in, wasn't expecting an interview today.

BOB - BTW n**ed month is largely fuelled by a lack of clothing suited to the current climate, to prompt a lack of visitors in the house and the purpose of scaryfying anyone wishing to visit away for a few weeks, I promise there will be no FB photos. By the time the weather turns we'll have plenty need of clothes.

Now I know we do have an iron somewhere and possibly shoe polish.

Karmacat

Pipster, you're a giant in my eyes :kisses3:

ZTD

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Thanks to both. And, fingers crossed later today please.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Z perhaps I'm too much of a pragmatist I'd assume that its absolutely implicit that its hard work from the very nature of the post regardless of gender. I think its essentially, largely, skilled heavy labouring which I have no issue with.

It would seem that he has encountered those with "a lesser gift of pragmatism".

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Gardening is hard graft, perhaps some previous candidates haven't been aware of the nature of that, seeing it as a soft option.

They may think it's guiding people round plants and saying "That's a fuscia..."

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

I just think perhaps the term of phrase in an initial phone enquiry could have been a bit better, I got what he meant.

I'm not denying that it could have been phrased in a more PC way. What I am saying is that a single clumsy phrasing shouldn't be taken as prima facie evidence of underlying malice.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

When I said he shouldn't have mentioned it I meant the gender of the folks previously he'd employed which were not up to mustard, not the hard work.

That's what you wanted, but alas hard experience has shown me (at least) that you don't get what you want, but usually only get what you ask for (assuming you're lucky), and usually in the most inconvenient way possible (cynic? moi? :A). Leading to the motto: "Be careful what you ask for, in case you get it."

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

TBH If he'd said 'we've had people who couldn't manage it before cos its backbreaking work', I think that might have been a bit more professional. That's all. I'm doubtful that everyone that couldn't cut the mustard was actually of one gender, I know plenty of less able, other mammals too.

Well again to be fair, he didn't say 100% of the women didn't pass muster (IIRC "not much luck" is quite vague), and he didn't say how many of the men didn't either. If you start work there, you'll know how much is "not much" by how many female faces there are.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Anyhow's, my comments weren't meant to annoy, I promise.

I know they weren't. It was just the piling-on after the initial report and attributing of personal malice in the remarks just became a bit much.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

In the words of Jack Nicholson 'I can (sometimes) handle the truth' [cheezy grin central]

Although I do like the idea of working on a chain gang, paid exercise, with muscles to boot! How exciting would that be.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick...chain gangs are not paid...

It's the US equivalent of community service.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Although it would of course depend on the pay and the hours and other stuff too..............

Long hours. Poor pay. Shoddy accommodation (though with plenty of bars)...

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

and I'll remember to order bath oil, good call, I'm still pretty physical at home but its different when you're working with other folks, the pace can be different

Even working in a different location, you can be stretching differently and using a different muscle. Which then doesn't know what hit it...

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

However, one thing I am very concerned about, I'm already at hobbit status at home I'm not sure how much I'd like to start at gnome level again. That is something to think about.

:rotfl:

Demotion...

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

I talked to my current job share (j/s) on the phone about it today. His opinion was very similar to yours Dawn, being a peep who previously worked in middle management for a LA his (and TRG's) reactions were entirely the same.

Large organisations behave differently. They are risk averse - even the very mention of gender would have somebody coming out in hives. What happens there, is that not only do people not say things like that because it's unprofessional (and people complain), they don't say anything in case it's unprofessional (and people will complain). What happens then is the employees complain bitterly in times of job cuts and other crises (watch interviews on TV for examples of that) that "management" don't tell them anything...

Be careful what you ask for.

(And yes, I do work for quite a large organisation.)

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

He (j/s) also shared that being of shorter stature he often gets similar comments regarding his ability, also not cool, preconceptions are rife, it would seem regardless of gender.

It must be better than average where I live, because I've never heard anything like that. People are crap because they're crap and everyone knows they're crap (and even how they're crap) - and extraneous variables such as height are not needed. Maybe it's a turnover thing. Our staff turnover is quite low.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

I'm not so shrinking a violet to assume working life will always be entirely the way I'd like it to all the time, but his words were (job share), exactly like both of yours, see how you feel when you get there.

Trust your instincts.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

I do need something physically active to balance up the writing, which I mind on I did reply at the time, so I must have been reading your mind Z.

I may be unemployable and better suited to self-employment after all this time, who knows. Its interesting finding out.

No reason you should be unemployable. For larger organisations, the recruitment process may consist of:

• "Over qualified"
• Bin

but smaller ones will probably be willing to take a punt.

Pippilongstocking

Morning lands. Well a chilly but dry and clear start to the day.

Heating is still off mind.

Thanks for the input Z much appreciated.

Last nights chat was interesting on very many fronts, crux of the matter is that its a ten hour day with twenty mins for lunch. I guess that means if I wanted twenty hours they could be over swiftly which does suit and I'm a fast eater. Its quite a unique wee company, very quirky boss with some very interesting views on life it would appear.

Just above the minimum wage means I'd need 20 hours to make it worth my while.

I've worked out I need an extra c£500/month to make up for the teaching money I've lost for the next 4 months due to a change in that contract. So that's either a 20/hour week job or serious patchwork incoming I think.

We're both taking a couple of days to think it through and then talk again. It would be interesting work, which would fulfill CPD for me in a quite challenging, demanding working environment I think. So lots to ponder.

Last nights dinner did not go to plan, I got back late and himself was busy so snacks instead of real grub. Mind on the pork got recycled into todays lunch so we're good.

Popped by Mr T on way from interview got a few bits (coffee, reduced bread, reduced chook, half price ice-cream for himself and some cereal bars) £7.24

Drove 25 miles. Petrols on red again which means c40 miles left of my petrol. Might avoid driving today if I can and ride out this months petrol.

Today's plan, paid work (report),
unmowed grass to mow
apple mountain to chop
finish short story and email in
cleaning
tidy bedroom
post DS grant application documents for oop north
Recheck strawbs as they're rooted look at ebay for listing

Too early to plan more the now. Time for a cuppa.

ZTD

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Morning lands. Well a chilly but dry and clear start to the day.

:wave: Same here.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Heating is still off mind.

Same here.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Thanks for the input Z much appreciated.

Yes...

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Last nights chat was interesting on very many fronts, crux of the matter is that its a ten hour day with twenty mins for lunch.

:eek:

I think I'll keep my cushy office job thank you very much!

:eek:

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

I guess that means if I wanted twenty hours they could be over swiftly which does suit and I'm a fast eater. Its quite a unique wee company, very quirky boss with some very interesting views on life it would appear.

And the euphemisms just keep flowing...

The important question is: Could you work for/with him?

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Just above the minimum wage means I'd need 20 hours to make it worth my while.

Which could be done in about 2 days a week with the other five spent limping around, recovering.

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

I've worked out I need an extra c£500/month to make up for the teaching money I've lost for the next 4 months due to a change in that contract. So that's either a 20/hour week job or serious patchwork incoming I think.

We're both taking a couple of days to think it through and then talk again. It would be interesting work, which would fulfill CPD for me in a quite challenging, demanding working environment I think. So lots to ponder.

When will you hear about the admin job?

Pippilongstocking wrote: »

Too early to plan more the now. Time for a cuppa.

Same here... :coffee:

Pippilongstocking

Aye the euphemisms and the woolly hat firmly on.

Morning Z

Personalities aside (I'm a very funny cup of tea I'm told :P).........Interesting company working out of a tiny summerhouse in the garden, 1/2 million turnover. Quirky, clearly fitting the local market really well. External enquiries are that they're a polite, reliable, busy local company.

Could I work for that particular company - potentially. I'm quite skint and my forward planning income has been hammered a bit unexpectedly. So I think I could, in the short term, but I think it would depend upon the team I'm placed in. The grieve was openly interested in my skills and how it would benefit/fit into him in his team. There are four in total, 20 staff.

The question I have to ask myself really is do I want to sit on my bottom and earn more money (eg an admin type job) or gad out and about blitzing gardens and leaning more as I go. That's really the crux and I don't know what the answer is tbh. I can stay self-employed and figure a cunning plan from here longer term but shorter term, finances need a boost. And, my skills need improving, CPD would be good on that front.

(insert shreeky head) Plant ID 'test' last night and I only got 75-80% of them right. I do deserve a slap with a wet rhubarb leaf for that one. My skills are asleep from up north. I was horrified, in a get those eyes working and remember those plants kinda way.

Now its time for another cuppa and the suns put in an appearance.

Pippilongstocking

£195 in the bank, DD for 02 off

£50 payment from DS towards laptop, which I put to the cc, so that's £300/650 paid.

Invoice and expenses are in for one job - must chase the expenses for the other.

CHASE EXPENSES today before 2pm in case you have to post anything (save going to bigger post office and get picked up here) silly girl.