Just needed to be heard for a little while

Waves_and_Smiles

You lot do make me giggle! I want fireman! I would come under vulnerable too...

LIR! Someone like me! The same thing happens everytime I knit! In the end the stitches won't come off the needle because they are so tight and I have no idea how to stop doing it!

Thank you for the gift ideas, you are all far better at choosing what I need than I am! We want to keep gifts as cheap as possible, it is why we thought of a hamper as MIL has lots of things she never uses scattered around and it would have cost next to nothing. BIL also has to buy the gifts so it has to be really simple, simpler than a cushion apparently! Asking for vouchers or money doesn't work because BIL spends it on himself and then tells WaSp not to tell her because it will upset her which is just embarrassing and awkward.

Don't mind me being a quite quiet. My teacher friend decided to use a tough love approach with me. He meant it was lots of love and care but I don't really do well with tough love because I am so critical of myself as it is. I am just trying to work it out in my head and convert my initial reaction of "See? I am a selfish attention-seeking victim!" into what he really meant. I have told him before that tough love fails miserably with me, I work far better with logical and rational arguments against what I think and feel ( a CBT approach) rather than the "Oh, stop the self-pity" approach, I think I am a pretty bad person before we even start down that road. Which is probably self-pity anyway and now I am tied up in knots questioning everything I think... which is probably self-indulgent...argh!

Take no notice everyone, carry on as you were.

dibuzz

Huge hugs WaS, you are not a bad person as this thread shows.

whitewing

WaS, stop thinking!

We love you anyway and accept you entirely as you are today, yesteryear and tomorrow. We all have good points and not-so-good points, and they can be the same traits sometimes. I am stubborn/persevering, honest/unsympathetic, reflective/self-indulgent, decisive/harsh, depending on who you are asking. In any case, you are allowed to make mistakes as you shape your personality through experience rather than restrict your life from fear.

You have a good autumnal day today and decide where you are going for your outing.

Pyxis

Waves_and_Smiles wrote: »

I have told him before that tough love fails miserably with me, I work far better with logical and rational arguments against what I think and feel ( a CBT approach) rather than the "Oh, stop the self-pity" approach, I think I am a pretty bad person before we even start down that road. Which is probably self-pity anyway and now I am tied up in knots questioning everything I think... which is probably self-indulgent...argh!
.

Actually, I'm glad you've said all that.
A me penguin:-


For years and years I have found that I react badly to people who give me the 'cheer up! It could be worse!' approach to things that have upset me very, very badly. I found that if I was deeply down about someone or something, a friend would immediately start giving me a positive spin on the problem. This had the result of making me feel that I had no right to be feeling bad, and worse still, validated the hurtful approach that had upset me in the first place. The net result was that I felt even worse after their pep talks!
This was due to years of an 'it's all about you, isn't it?' attitude afforded to me by family who should have been supportive but weren't, and so made me feel that my upsets weren't valid, but that theirs were.
There were so many times when I have wanted a friend to just give me a hug and acknowledge that I am feeling bad and why, and, basically, just give me some validation. But it never happens. Some people take the view that that would be pandering to the negative and would encourage negative behaviour, but on the rare occasion when a snippet of understanding should occur, it gives me a huge lift. It would have such a huge effect on my self-esteem and well-being to have more of that.

It is all about acknowledgement. I think the term is 'unconditional regard'?

And yes, without that, ones self-esteem keeps plummeting and what is reinforced is that feeling that one is self-centred and selfish, whereas in reality I try very hard to be the complete opposite when others have needs and worries, sensing their upset even before it is voiced, and going all out to be supportive to them.


End penguin.

whitewing

Yes, pyxis, I agree wholeheartedly.

Waves_and_Smiles

Thank you all so much, and yes Pyxis that is why tough love doesn't work with me, i am so sorry that you went through that. I spent a long time being told that I cried crocodile tears and that I was selfish by my family so tough love and "look on the bright side!" just enforces that.

The thing is my teacher friend and I have very different approaches to 'bad feelings'. He has always suffered with anxiety but what works for him is to fill every second of every day, and I mean every second. He still works in schools for free because he won't allow himself any time even in retirement to relax, holidays are for other people. He honestly never gives himself time to think and sticks to a schedule that would exhaust most people. He then takes pills at night to make him sleep and the second he wakes up he is busy again. If any anxiety pops up he immediately does something to distract, this can involve immediately going to the gym and running for 5 miles, for example. He will not give it any head-space. He is 73 now and I do worry about what will happen when he physically can't do this anymore, he has spent 30 years filling his every waking hour in a way that works for him but I am not sure he has coping skills to deal with it if he had to stop.

I tend to take a more therapeutic approach (not a surprise) and try to work through my thoughts rationally and listen to them, although this can and does backfire when I think too much (Hello OCD). He finds it hard to understand why I don't use his approach and I can't picture myself doing it, for a start not going out, not watching tv, limited reading and difficulty with mobility causes problems with it. Also the psychosis is chemical and no amount of any activity or distraction will stop that when it messes up. Plus I have such a big therapy background that is second nature to me to analyse everything. Neither approach is right or wrong, they are just very different.

He truly only wants to help me and means it with all the care in the world, but it won't work for me and getting angry at my illnesses far too easily becomes getting angry at myself. So I end up not saying a word to anyone because I feel that everything I say is self-indulgent (he did actually say the fact I am not fighting it to him is self-indulgent-different perspectives) which results in even more thoughts going around in my head as I am not sharing them and basically will someone please shut my brain off?

I am also utterly useless with criticism. Even positive well meaning, criticism. All the old tapes in my mind say "See? told you that you were wrong and bad!" and it takes me a while to smother that immediate response and see the positive side (And hello BPD).

I'll be fine, as I said tough love is pointless with me as is pull yourself together. I'll get over it and I know that he would walk over hot coals for me, he means everything with the utmost love.

Pyxis

No shooting allowed on this thread, WaS!

I echo all you have said!

I must admit, I don't take criticism well, even when I can rationalise that it was well-meant and constructive! And if it isn't well-meant, well! here comes a three-day decline into the black hole!
Again, this stems from a childhood full of hardly ever being congratulated on anything. Even when I bust a gut at school one term, and came second in class, the response was.........yes, you guessed it! I didn't bother busting a gut after that, went back to coasting!
And on the contrary, being told I was useless, unhelpful, could never do right for doing wrong, etc.
So, if I now receive criticism, I almost physically feel myself shrink, presumably because I'm reverting to the child, and if it's a strong criticism, I can almost feel it as a punch in the stomach!

The analytical part of me finds it all fascinating, but it not fun when it happens.

Waves_and_Smiles

I am exactly the same, Pyxis. I used to hide it when I did well at school because my grandmother in particular felt education was for the upper classes and that I should be out there working from the age of 14 and giving money to my mother. She used to tell me that I had "ideas above my station" everytime I did well at school, I almost caused WW3 by going to university. I was always told that I wasn't good enough, that I was being stuck up, that I was failing my family. Hence any criticism now catapults me back emotionally to there again.

I know constructive criticism exists and eventually I can see it that way, but my initial reaction is to feel devastated and view it as proof that my family were correct.

Pyxis

((((((((((WaS))))))))))))))

whitewing

I was in set 3 for science and scored 97% in an end of year exam (20% higher than the top person in set 1). My dad said, what happened to the other 3%. And.....okay, I am not going there today.

I can't take criticism either, and have been told that in appraisals and evaluations at work. Now, what would really help is to be able to say, no I am aware that I cannot take criticism. I have a medical condition called BPD, and that means unfortunately that even constructive criticism can make me feel suicidal.

However, I can't really dump that on an unsuspecting person. I can take criticism actually, I have to be able to in order to work with big organisations. Of course my performance needs to evaluated. What is easier for me is if someone emails it, then has a meeting with me to discuss it to ensure we both understand what it means, then agrees a rewording with me. Anxiety/Aspergic traits means I over-analyse every full stop, let alone every word. It is also very painful to have someone say something that means my performance is ever less than 110% (even though nobody is able to do that kind of performance every minute of every day). As I am busy trying to neutralise the poison arrows that are sticking into my mind, it is very difficult to deal with sorting out my body language, talking etc - anything that makes the other person feel comfortable. So consequently, they think that I am disregarding what they say and pile it on more.

Sometimes a small piece of 'criticism' can only be handled by me ignoring the whole report, which is a shame.

Also, there is a tendency for people to give constructive feedback but not mention the things that are brilliant. I need about 20 'greats' to counteract the feelings I experience over one small negative, but it is never going to happen in a professional appraisal - it's not our culture. It would stop me having to work through that process myself. The silly thing is that I would have recovered better from bpd and sooner in a more positive, 'mindful' general culture. And recovering means I find it easier to handle criticism, even the nasty stuff.