A Yes vote means better jobs for young people in Scotland

Thrugelmir

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

If you like to make comparables, why don;t all european countries merge to become a United States of Europe

What's the ultimate goal of those currently driving EU integration between memember states? A federal Europe has always been part of the creation agenda. Never was just a trade area.

zagubov

CLAPTON wrote: »

Taking for the moment a non-racist view, your argument seems solely based on 'small is best/more democratic'.

Is there an 'optimal' size that is independent of race/nationality?

Maybe. there's a bit of a "sweet spot" between the larger countries and the micronations. Lots of reasonably developed smaller countries Israel, Singapore, Switzerland, Scandinavia, New Zealand, Austria, Many of these are multiethnic, and have many official languages, but are small enough to get things done more quickly than bigger countries.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

What's the ultimate goal of those currently driving EU integration between memember states? A federal Europe has always been part of the creation agenda. Never was just a trade area.

Preventing separate armies so there'll be trade not conflict, I'd imagine.

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

Maybe. there's a bit of a "sweet spot" between the larger countries and the micronations. Lots of reasonably developed smaller countries Israel, Singapore, Switzerland, Scandinavia, New Zealand, Austria, Many of these are multiethnic, and have many official languages, but are small enough to get things done more quickly than bigger countries.

yes indeed, there may be some small countries doing very well and there are some small countries doing very badly.

Nothing there to show that breaking up a country increases the prosperity of the two parts.

Some like switzerland, could easily find reasons to break into three parts but have chosen not to do so.
New Zealand could break into North and South Island but haven't done so because the northerns don't hate the southerns.

londonlydia

The original quoted article is a little flawed IMHO. It doesnt point out that there will be big businesses that leave Scotland if it becomes independent. It's already been announced that will be the case for BAE (thats 3,600 jobs lost), and I would imagine much of the financial sector would follow suit rather than risk uncertainty in their dealings. Plus, whilst a higher minimum wage in principle sounds good, the reality is for SME they will say they can only afford the same amount on wages so hire less staff, not more.

I've got a few friends who headed to Scotland for work, and nearly all have said they'd be forced to head back to the mainland if independence happens. Thing is, the Union is a known quantity, independent Scotland isnt, and for some the gamble isnt worth it when their jobs, schools, families, lives depend on it.

tberry6686

A yes vote will mean less jobs overall (at least in the short term) as numerous large companies move out of Scotland. Many companies have put large scale plans for Scottish investment on hold due to uncertainty about tax and rule changes.

They see straight through Salmonds made up numbers and know that large tax hikes would be needed just to maintain spending at its current level without the increase that the yes campaign are promising.

IveSeenTheLight

CLAPTON wrote: »

New Zealand could break into North and South Island but haven't done so because the northerns don't hate the southerns.

HeHE, again it's nothing to do with hate, that's your misguided conception.

Have North New Zealand and South New Zealand every historically been independent countries?
If not, then it's not a true comparison

IveSeenTheLight

londonlydia wrote: »

The original quoted article is a little flawed IMHO. It doesnt point out that there will be big businesses that leave Scotland if it becomes independent.

tberry6686 wrote: »

A yes vote will mean less jobs overall (at least in the short term) as numerous large companies move out of Scotland.

Interesting perception and of course a possibility.

there are also significant business backers for continuance post independence

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=65740349&postcount=1

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=65740548&postcount=5

There are much more business leader comments here
Business quotes about an independent Scotland

You may also find this article interesting
Opportunities of independence can generate £5 billion boost for Scotland’s economy

A new economic report published today sets out how the powers of independence can improve Scotland’s economy and increase prosperity. Higher employment rates, better productivity and Scotland’s population can generate £5 billion in extra revenue which equals £1000 extra in finances for every person in Scotland.

This builds on previous research which highlighted the opportunities of taking control of investment, labour rights and migration policy in Scotland. These benefits contrast sharply with the risks and uncertainties generated from Westminster policy in these areas, which have repeatedly worked against Scotland’s interest.

Over the past five years Scotland would have been £8.3 billion better off as an independent country. However, the referendum on independence presents a choice between two economic futures. Rather than considering decisions which have negatively impacted on Scotland, independence presents an opportunity to improve Scotland’s performance.

The opportunities and the benefits


The report today sets out three key opportunities to improve Scotland’s economy by using economic powers.

These improvements mean that people in Scotland will be better off. They are also huge opportunities to create more jobs.


Increasing employment rates

employmentA 3.3% rise in employment can boost total income by £1.3 billion per year by 2029-30. A year measure to achieve this is to expand childcare provision, which has cross-party support.

A rise from 71% (Scotland) towards 75.4% (Norway), 74.4% (Sweden) or 74.4% (Netherlands) would achieve this.

Business for Scotland has covered this in further detail.

Increasing productivity


productivity
A 0.3% rise in Scotland’s productivity per year can generate £2.4 billion in extra income over the same period.

Improving working structures and efficiency would increase output and overall wealth.

Onshore productivity in Scotland is currently 22% lower than in Denmark.

Productivity in Scotlandcan be improved through training, new technology and employee participation.

One previous example explored on Business for Scotland is worker participation on company boards.

Increasing the population

population
Business for Scotland has set out in detail why relative population stagnation in Scotland had been a major economic drag throughout the 20th century and how independence can make a significant difference. Having the policy levers necessary to change immigration policy is central.

Scotland’s population has barely increased during the last three decades and this limits economic growth.

This new report states that increasing Scotland’s population by 26,000 a year would improve the economy by £1.5 billion each year by the end of the next decade.

These figures mirror Business for Scotland and Institute for Fiscal Studies research which found that same 26,000 figure would improve Scotland’s economy by a total of over £65 billion over future decades.

In the last decade Scotland’s population has grown by 22,000 a year. With a more open immigration policy, the target of 26,000 is achievable.

These opportunities add up

£1.3 billion from increased employment, £2.4 billion from increased productivity, and £1.5 billion from an increased population equal more than a £5 billion improvement in Scotland’s economy over just 15 years.

With ambition for Scotland and tailored economic policies, national prosperity can be increased and will contribute to a stronger social structure for communities.

Beyond the headlines

This research highlights three key points:

1) Decisions after independence can improve Scotland’s economic position.

2) A Yes vote is a starting point. The best way to face economic challenges is having full control over decision making so the economy can suit Scotland’s needs and interests.

3) Employment, productivity and population improvements are themselves enough to substantially improve Scotland’s economic position. There are further opportunities in areas such as tax reform, industrial policy, energy, trade and investment, business innovation and multiple savings.

Generali

To paraphrase, boosting female employment is a panacea that will salve the Scottish economy.

One possible reason for low female employment (59% of women with children work) is that 26% of mothers are single mothers (link) in Scotland whereas about 14% of mothers are single mothers in Norway (link).

Most of the difference in female employment in Norway and Scotland can be explained by single motherhood. It is practically difficult to work as a single parent and benefits laws generally treat non-working single parents relatively generously.

The study itself shows that Scottish female participation rates are higher than far richer countries such as Australia and Germany (link)

CLAPTON

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

HeHE, again it's nothing to do with hate, that's your misguided conception.

Have North New Zealand and South New Zealand every historically been independent countries?
If not, then it's not a true comparison

yes, when Scotland was last independent, north and south island were each independent

the real issue isn't whether a geographic entry was once independent but what people's attitude to their neighbours is

yugoslavia didn't break up because they were once independent countries but because of the hatred between the peoples.

Mallotum_X

On the jobs front, what would happen to all the (uk) government jobs - eg london tax offices that were set up in Scotland. Presumably all jobs of that nature would be relocated back to the UK?