A Yes vote means better jobs for young people in Scotland

IveSeenTheLight

CLAPTON wrote: »

being a mongrel, it would be inappropriate to be proud of my nationality as such

No need to be inappropriate.

I believe much of Nationality is down to where you are born, however understand that there are some exceptions if children are born whilst the parent is travelling.

I lived in Malaysia and had a friend who gave birth in Malaysia.
It's actual part of the law that immigrants who give birth in the country, the child does not automatically get citizenship.

This is to stop poorer neighbouring countries giving birth in Malaysia to get adopted citizenship.

For those with different parent nationalities and different domicility, there is the option of having a dual nationality.
I can understand these groups being proud of both nations.

Generali

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

For those with different parent nationalities and different domicility, there is the option of having a dual nationality.
I can understand these groups being proud of both nations.

My kids are proud to be both English and Australian.

Both were born to English and Aussie parents in London and moved to Australia at an early age.

Mrs Generali is proud of her Englishness despite her only connections with England being a single grandparent and having lived there for over a decade. She feels as English as she does Australian.

My opinion is that nationality is a matter of belief rather than of fact.

IveSeenTheLight

CLAPTON wrote: »

if you mum and dad were born in scotland but you were born in england, what would you be proud of
-being the child of your scottish mum and dad?
-being born in england

suppose you were a mongrel like me: what would you be proud of
-your place of birth
-your mum's place of birth
-your dad's place of birth

doesn't seem to make any sense to me

Maybe it doesn't make sense to you as you have no affinity to any place or parent heritage.

Are you into football? The world cup is about to start, do you have any affinity with any team participating?
If like me, your local team did not qualify, what about the qualifying rounds? Did you support anyone?

IveSeenTheLight

Generali wrote: »

My opinion is that nationality is a matter of belief rather than of fact.

I can understand this.
Conversely there is also the matter of law, which is fact.

Returning to your belief opinion, surely you accept that those that have a strong belief in any specific country affiliation, cannot be condemned for being proud of that link?

There could be an argument that if England, Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland cannot be independently recognised, then indeed how can you or your family have an affinity with England.

Sure it should be Australian / Brittish

IveSeenTheLight

patman99 wrote: »

The English maintain the NMW & pension and then lower the C/T to match the Scottish.

Has this been suggested by any of the UK parties?
If not then your point is rather mute as one of hundreds of hypothetical situations.

Indeed the UK is already increasing the National Minimum Wage in October and at least two of the main parties are manifesting to continue to do so.

The second point on lowering C/T has already been factored in by the UK government to reduce C/T to 20% by 2015.

Generali

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I can understand this.
Conversely there is also the matter of law, which is fact.

The law concerns citizenship rather than nationality AIUI.

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Returning to your belief opinion, surely you accept that those that have a strong belief in any specific country affiliation, cannot be condemned for being proud of that link?

The problem I have with Nationalism is that it is often (although not always) synonymous with racism. Just as UKIP is basically a racist party. Not all members and supporters will be racist but you can bet that the majority are.

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

There could be an argument that if England, Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland cannot be independently recognised, then indeed how can you or your family have an affinity with England.

I have an affinity with my home village, Mrs Generali's (very unfashionable) home suburb, France (where I lived for a chunk of my late teens and early 20s), a country in the Middle East, parts of NW England, Cornwall, many parts of NSW and London.

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Sure it should be Australian / Brittish

The Generalissimos see themselves as English not British. They've never been to Scotland, NI or Wales. I'm just starting to explain that they're British and English and that the legal term is British. British and English are different things.

When we lived in the UK I called us English to instill a sense of support for the English cricket, soccer and rugger teams. It's helpful to keep things simple for the littl'uns and let's face it, we don't want them supporting the Aussies by mistake any more than we want them as Gooners.

Racially I'm very much a Briton: fair skin and red hair. Happy to get my kit off, paint myself with woad and take Mrs Generali into battle with me.

CLAPTON

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Maybe it doesn't make sense to you as you have no affinity to any place or parent heritage.

Are you into football? The world cup is about to start, do you have any affinity with any team participating?
If like me, your local team did not qualify, what about the qualifying rounds? Did you support anyone?

I guess in about what you mean by 'proud'.

where you happen to be born or where your parents are born is no real credit to oneself.

feeling of tribal loyalty is a fact of life, so yes I support both my 'national' teams unless they are playing each other when I happily just enjoy the game.

I don't consider myself to be 'proud' of either nationality although I consider myself to be lucky to live in a country like the UK because of the benefits it provides.

In the context of separation of UK and Scotland, I regret it as I don't feel either is in any way superior and so would only look for specific advantage.
The vote for 'yes' will be determined by the hatred of the English, some primeval belief is racial superiority, a little bit of economics and fear of change.

IveSeenTheLight

CLAPTON wrote: »

In the context of separation of UK and Scotland, I regret it as I don't feel either is in any way superior and so would only look for specific advantage.
The vote for 'yes' will be determined by the hatred of the English, some primeval belief is racial superiority, a little bit of economics and fear of change.

In my opinion, the above perception is one from non Scot's/
It's a stereo type that actually is incorrect.

I do not believe that either country is superior. Just simply want the voice of Scotland to be stronger to determine how we are governed.

I found it interesting that Alastair Darling used effectively scaremongering tactics again today citing that (in similar words): -

The UK has been defined by governments which if the UK public were unhappy with, could vote for change.
The vote in September is not like that in that it is irrevocable and that the decision could not be reversed.

For me, this clearly defines how out of touch the "bettertogether" campaign are.

Most Pro-Independence voters are doing so to get a government of choice.

As an independent Scotland we WILL be able to vote for change and for governments of choice.

What independence will do is make the power of each persons vote stronger in that it will directly influence governments to act on the benefits of the Scottish people, other wise the Scottish people will vote for an alternative government of choice.

CLAPTON

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

In my opinion, the above perception is one from non Scot's/
It's a stereo type that actually is incorrect.

I do not believe that either country is superior. Just simply want the voice of Scotland to be stronger to determine how we are governed.

I found it interesting that Alastair Darling used effectively scaremongering tactics again today citing that (in similar words): -

The UK has been defined by governments which if the UK public were unhappy with, could vote for change.
The vote in September is not like that in that it is irrevocable and that the decision could not be reversed.

For me, this clearly defines how out of touch the "bettertogether" campaign are.

Most Pro-Independence voters are doing so to get a government of choice.

As an independent Scotland we WILL be able to vote for change and for governments of choice.

What independence will do is make the power of each persons vote stronger in that it will directly influence governments to act on the benefits of the Scottish people, other wise the Scottish people will vote for an alternative government of choice.

Taking for the moment a non-racist view, your argument seems solely based on 'small is best/more democratic'.

Is there an 'optimal' size that is independent of race/nationality?

IveSeenTheLight

CLAPTON wrote: »

Taking for the moment a non-racist view, your argument seems solely based on 'small is best/more democratic'.

Is there an 'optimal' size that is independent of race/nationality?

Again I reiterate I am not racist (in the standard acceptance of the terminology), I just believe in our Nation.
If you like to make comparables, why don;t all european countries merge to become a United States of Europe and attempt to compete globally with the likes of the US and China?

It's not about being small or an optimal size.
It's about recognising a country.

Scotland is a country and regardless of what the population is it should be able to have full sovereignty over its future.

We can look at similar sized North European Countries who fare far better than the UK i.e. Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden etc.

Even looking at a country like Singapore, where it became independent from Malaysia in 1965 as an example of how a smaller nation can prosper.

We are capable of going on our own and determining our own future.

Like I said, if we are unable to recognise Scotland as an Independent Country, then in reality, we should not be recognising England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland and totally buy into the united culture by referring to the country as UK only.