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The rise of Extremism in Economically tough times
Comments
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general opinion amongst the ruling elite (horrible term) is that the voters of the UK are too stupid to be given the choice and should just do what they are told.
Unfortunately, this sentiment probably has more than a grain of truth to it. It would probably be nigh-on impossible to have a proper debate about the political and economic theory that really should go into a decision like this.
It's a bit like the Scottish referendum, which is being substantially argued on short term considerations rather than genuine constitutional issues, as if secession from the UK was just like another general election.
Unfortunately, it's true on both side of the argument. UKIP may come across as a bunch of populist nutters, but actually Farage and a few of the more intellectual members and donors actuallly have a much more sophisticated understanding about what they are campaigning for and why. But they too find it impossible to actually argue any of this with the public, hence the cloak of populism, and hence also the charge of 'nutterage' that is lazily laid against them.
When the argument should be about things like the merits of combining monetary federalism combined with devolved sovereign fiscal policies, it ends up being about whether it was Romanians or Slovakians who nicked all the jobs.0 -
Either of the two main parties could decimate UKIP's support by announcing now three things that will be in their 2015 manifesto :-
(1) A referendum on the EU will be held immediately after May 2015, with three options :- (a) stay in; (b) come out ; (c) renegotiate and then hold a straight in/out referendum in 2017.
Assuming that the result is (b) or (c) then the following will also apply :-
(2) The UK sets its own quotas and limits on EU and non-EU immigration from July 1, 2015. If the EU or anyone else tries to sanction us/take us to court then we defend it as being in our vital national interests and refuse to pay any fines.
(3) The UK withdraws from the jurisdiction of the ECHR from July 1, 2015. A government bill will be presented asap for a UK tailored human rights regime with all decisions made by the UK courts and the UK judiciary, and them alone.
These would represent a slam-dunk certain election winning platform, let alone just seeing off UKIP.
Can anyone suggest why the Tories in particular don't just do this ?No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
There is no equivalent visa in the UK.
The closest UK equivalent visa would be able to work for the UK Government but would have to wait much longer to have a chance at becoming a citizen. 7 years in the UK vs 2 in Aus (when I came here).
I was referring to being able to vote and work for the government.0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »
Can anyone suggest why the Tories in particular don't just do this ?
I really don't understand it either. The Lib Dems in particular have missed an easy vote winner. If there are sound economic arguments for being in the EU, then let's look at the evidence and then the public can decide.They are an EYESORES!!!!0 -
GeorgeHowell wrote: »Can anyone suggest why the Tories in particular don't just do this ?
..because Con/ Lab/ Lib Dem are generally supportive of the UK's position in Europe. However, they've been mute on Europe and played into UKIP's hands.
I guess they also suspect people won't be daft enough to vote UKIP in large numbers in a general election.0 -
I guess they also suspect people won't be daft enough to vote UKIP in large numbers in a general election.
This is what they are hoping for , however stranger things have happened.
In Scotland, the constituencies were drawn up with the plan that no party would be able to command an overall majority.
It happened though and now there is a referendum on independence in Scotland.
I don;t think the three parties can stick their head in the sand "hoping" that the general electorate do not vote for UKIP.
If anything, there seems to be a growing appetite for voting none of hte above with UKIP capturing those voters:wall:
What we've got here is....... failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach.
:wall:0 -
IveSeenTheLight wrote: »This is what they are hoping for , however stranger things have happened.
This is what I thought as well. The European election's are the time to send a message to politicians about Europe, but I thought people would revert to normal allegiance's for the G.E. I still think a lot will. But I was thinking about this yesterday, what if the assumption is wrong? What if they've let the genie out of the bottle ? They could have just made a hell of a mistake.0 -
This is what I thought as well. The European election's are the time to send a message to politicians about Europe, but I thought people would revert to normal allegiance's for the G.E. I still think a lot will. But I was thinking about this yesterday, what if the assumption is wrong? What if they've let the genie out of the bottle ? They could have just made a hell of a mistake.
The EU establishment will be telling governments in all the affected countries not to change direction. The European project is sound, we have been through this before, and it blows over. Germany will continue to pull all the levers and to bankroll as necessary in order to ensure that the relentless march towards the federal dream continues unabated, and that it is finally able to achieve by political and economic means what it failed to do twice by military means.
That is undoubtedly why a lot of people, and in particular a lot of older people, voted UKIP.No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0 -
This is what I thought as well. The European election's are the time to send a message to politicians about Europe, but I thought people would revert to normal allegiance's for the G.E. I still think a lot will. But I was thinking about this yesterday, what if the assumption is wrong? What if they've let the genie out of the bottle ? They could have just made a hell of a mistake.
Having been part of the "give them a kicking" vote last week I thought that would be my default position, i.e. return to my 'natural' party for the GE. I'm now feeling more ambivalent about that.It only takes one tree to make a thousand matches, it only takes one match to burn a thousand trees. As well, the cars are all passing me, bright lights are flashing me.
Johnny Was. Once.
Why did he think "systolic" ?0 -
Having been part of the "give them a kicking" vote last week I thought that would be my default position, i.e. return to my 'natural' party for the GE. I'm now feeling more ambivalent about that.
If you and many others vote UKIP you may well not get that referendum. Is it worth sacrificing that to give them another kicking ?No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions. He had money as well.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
Margaret Thatcher0
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