The rise of Extremism in Economically tough times

Thrugelmir

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

f there are sound economic arguments for being in the EU, then let's look at the evidence and then the public can decide.

That's not the wider issue. It's the constitution that's being imposed by the back door that is. You don't need an institution of the scale of Brussels to create a trade zone.

RichandJ

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

If you and many others vote UKIP you may well not get that referendum. Is it worth sacrificing that to give them another kicking ?

I know, hence the ambivalence. But if the Tories no longer represent me on this issue as well as many others why should I vote for them ?

I'm well aware voting other or even abstaining (anathema to me) could let Millibean in (also anathema), but, but, there's an inchoate loathing in me toward Cameron and his spivvery. What's he for ?

Linda_D_2

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

Either of the two main parties could decimate UKIP's support by announcing now three things that will be in their 2015 manifesto :-

(1) A referendum on the EU will be held immediately after May 2015, with three options :- (a) stay in; (b) come out ; (c) renegotiate and then hold a straight in/out referendum in 2017.

Assuming that the result is (b) or (c) then the following will also apply :-

(2) The UK sets its own quotas and limits on EU and non-EU immigration from July 1, 2015. If the EU or anyone else tries to sanction us/take us to court then we defend it as being in our vital national interests and refuse to pay any fines.

(3) The UK withdraws from the jurisdiction of the ECHR from July 1, 2015. A government bill will be presented asap for a UK tailored human rights regime with all decisions made by the UK courts and the UK judiciary, and them alone.

These would represent a slam-dunk certain election winning platform, let alone just seeing off UKIP.

Can anyone suggest why the Tories in particular don't just do this ?

because the Tories have no intention on ever giving the public a referendum.

Linda_D_2

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

If you and many others vote UKIP you may well not get that referendum. Is it worth sacrificing that to give them another kicking ?

Why not? The UKIP are the only party offering a referendum, the main 3 parties will never give one.

Better_Call_Saul

Linda_D wrote: »

because the Tories have no intention on ever giving the public a referendum.

How do you know that? You sound like you're stating a fact.

Better_Call_Saul

Thrugelmir wrote: »

That's not the wider issue. It's the constitution that's being imposed by the back door that is. You don't need an institution of the scale of Brussels to create a trade zone.

Evening Thrugelmir, assuming a trade zone is economically beneficial, surely the Tory idea of renegotiating our position in the EU is better than quitting altogether.

Linda_D_2

Better_Call_Saul wrote: »

How do you know that? You sound like you're stating a fact.

Cameron has already stated that he will only give the people a referendum if there is a tory government with a majority. He knows there's zero chance of that.
He already broke his promise of a referendum at the 2010 election, he has never had any intention of giving people a vote.

He's scared that the vote would be to leave the EU which he won't let happen.

Better_Call_Saul

Linda_D wrote: »

Cameron has already stated that he will only give the people a referendum if there is a tory government with a majority. He knows there's zero chance of that.
He already broke his promise of a referendum at the 2010 election, he has never had any intention of giving people a vote.

He's scared that the vote would be to leave the EU which he won't let happen.

I disagree. The message is vote Tory and with a majority they will give a referendum. People should probably listen to this because UKIP will never get a majority and the other parties are pro EU.

Linda_D_2

Better_Call_Saul wrote: »

I disagree. The message is vote Tory and with a majority they will give a referendum. People should probably listen to this because UKIP will never get a majority and the other parties are pro EU.

:rotfl:
the tories know they will not get a majority
the public know the tories will not get a majority

That's why they promised a referendum WITH a majority because they know and everyone else knows that will never happen.

It's like me promising to give you a million pounds if bats fly out my a$s singing the sound of music in a camp louis spence style while wearing matching top hats and tails.

It's never going to happen.
(but if there was ever a chance of it happening I'd be straight on Britains got talent!)


You been sampling some of those new blue rocks Saul?

Better_Call_Saul

Linda_D wrote: »

:rotfl:
the tories know they will not get a majority
the public know the tories will not get a majority

That's why they promised a referendum WITH a majority because they know and everyone else knows that will never happen.

It's like me promising to give you a million pounds if bats fly out my a$s singing the sound of music in a camp louis spence style while wearing matching top hats and tails.

It's never going to happen.
(but if there was ever a chance of it happening I'd be straight on Britains got talent!)



You been sampling some of those new blue rocks Saul?

Haha. Good comment at the end. We'll just have to wait and see. I think a Tory majority is more of a reality than you think. On the immigration issue alone the Tories are the only main party who are even slightly challenging the EU. You may find the UKIP vote may evaporate and the Tories are the ones who are best placed to gain.