Did the 999 responder act correctly? Very sensitive question

Person_one

Mojisola wrote: »

There has to be a balance between the need to attempt resuscitation and the capability of the person on the spot to cope with the situation.

We're talking potentially life or death here though, the balance should be very much weighted towards getting done what needs to be done to potentially save a life. Feelings are less important. Not unimportant of course, but lower priority at that moment in time.

Nobody can be physically forced to perform CPR/deliver a baby/put pressure on a gushing wound, and they always have the right to put the phone down and walk away if that's what they think is appropriate.

CH27

I had to ring 999 for my dad when he couldn't breathe properly.
The controller wanted to stay on the phone until the ambulance arrived but I said I can't i've got a big dog to shut away & I need to go downstairs to let the crew in.
The controller was adamant that I couldn't move from the phone. I said how the hell will the crew get in if I don't move the dog & open the door?
Controller said that isn't my problem!!!! Bonkers!

k12479

phill99 wrote: »

..procedures..

People keep mentioning the use of 'common sense'. Emergencies are generally not the place to be relying on common sense because it fails, overlooks things or makes situations even worse. That's why procedures have been developed for all sorts of situations from fire drills to aircraft engines failing. Start ignoring them and you might as well just chuck them away.

The comments about not putting yourself at risk also seem to be setting the bar pretty low. I would consider that to mean don't touch someone who's in contact with a live wire, don't enter a building on fire or go splashing through a chemical spill to reach someone.

skivenov

phill99 wrote: »

I was a first aid instructor with the Army for a number of years. We always taught that the only person who can confirm death is a doctor. We therefore taught that attempts at resuscitation had to be undertaken until help arrived, someone else took over or you were physically unable to continue.

The call handler was doing exactly as protocol and procedures dictate. It doesn't matter whether the caller was an ex nurse or 67 years old. The patient may not have been dead.

If the person found was not actually dead but the call handler had not insisted that CPR was not undertaken and the person subsequently died, the call handler would be in serious trouble.

Person_one is also correct. If somebody undertakes CPR and saves a life, the fact that a few bruises (or typically broken ribs if CPR is done correctly) is irrelevant. A life with a broken rib is better than no life at all.

True enough, but if mum's been a nurse, she'll know what "obviously deceased" looks like. I had one at an car crash a fair few years back, and I comfort myself in thinking that in dismissing any chance of assisting the obviously deceased, I was able to slow severe bleeding down in someone who lived, using a technique that a first aider (and probably a call handler) will probably tell you is wrong, but a battlefield medic would use without a second thought.

Like any advice, you have to apply it to the situation you're in, and disregard it if necessary.

Tiddlywinks

Mojisola wrote: »

There has to be a balance between the need to attempt resuscitation and the capability of the person on the spot to cope with the situation.

A balance between attempting to save a life against the risk of offending someone???

Life in a pink and fluffy bubble must be so lovely... in the real world, people do stressful jobs in difficult circumstances and sometimes need to ask others to do things they may not welcome.

GobbledyGook

I don't think the call handler was wrong. Neither did your Mum. People panic. The first time my daughter had a seizure I panicked and everything the 999 handler told me to do my instinct was 'I can't'. I was so panicked I couldn't even think straight. The call handler practically yelled at me and it was needed to break my blind panic and get me dealing with it properly.

Yes in this time it was already being dealt with properly, but I imagine that they deal with ordinary members of the public who have no real idea what a dead body feels/looks like than nurses so they have to go along the lines of 'are you sure? can't you try?'

Better to offend one person than not push someone else who, like I did, suddenly snaps into action and potentially saves a life.

Big_Tree

gingin wrote: »

No, there was equipment outside the car to make it obvious that the guy had gassed himself. There were also suicide notes left on the dashboard.

This is why the call handler insisted the man was pulled from the car, don't know about you but it seems obvious to me. The call handler did nothing wrong, I'm surprised the OP couldn't work it out on his own though.

Man poisons himself with co2 in confined space... he's discovered unresponsive in co2 filled confined space... best way to increase chances of survival is remove him from co2 filled confined space.

I can't believe the OP would leave out such a vital piece of information from the initial post.

SnowyOwl_2

redruby wrote: »

A neighbour of ours tragically hung himself last year, my OH along with neighbours son was first on the scene, OH phoned 999 and was told to cut the body down in case he was still breathing, neighbour was a massive bloke but OH managed to cut him down but he obviously fell to the ground, it was very distressing for his son and my OH, neighbour was very obviously dead but I suppose the person on the end of the phone could not tell this a horrible situation for all involved x

Similar happened to a friend of mine. She found her partner, he was very obviously deceased, but the 999 operator insisted and persisted in insisting that the body be cut down immediately. She was hysterical but passers by heard her screaming and they did it. Of course it was an absolute horror story for everyone present, but the 999 person had no way of knowing if the deceased had died a minute before or days before, or even if he was dead at all.

Mojisola

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

A balance between attempting to save a life against the risk of offending someone???

Life in a pink and fluffy bubble must be so lovely... in the real world, people do stressful jobs in difficult circumstances and sometimes need to ask others to do things they may not welcome.

More of a realistic - the outcome for someone who collapses and is given CPR quickly is very poor - putting pressure on someone to attempt the same on a body that is already showing signs of rigor might conform to a dispatcher's script but isn't going to help the deceased. The person who will have to deal with the pressure is the person on the ground being made to feel guilty for not acting.

dizziblonde

Stepfather found a dead body relatively recently - they didn't ask him to check pulse or anything - just took his word for it that they were dead... was under a very high bridge though (obviously someone jumping aiming for the river who'd miscalculated and hit the track along the riverbanks instead) so perhaps a bit more clear cut I guess?