Did the 999 responder act correctly? Very sensitive question

Georgiegirl256

Buzzybee90 wrote: »

Yes, congrats to your mum because I really don't know how I'd have reacted in that situation, I certainly wouldn't have surrounded myself in an obviously dead body. I'd find it very hard to take a pulse but of course I'd do so if needed.

Why would you find it hard to take someone's pulse?

Hermia

Georgiegirl256 wrote: »

I feel the operator was fairly inappropriate in your Mum's case, but like you say, they sounded pretty young, and they'll have just been following the script to the letter, taking it word for word. I think it was unfair to put your poor Mum under that pressure and maybe the system does need to be re-evaluated perhaps.

They may also be worried about being held responsible for a mistake. Can you imagine the outrage if they told the person to stop first aid and it later emerged that the person could have been saved? The Daily Mail would have a field day!

Georgiegirl256

Hermia wrote: »

They may also be worried about being held responsible for a mistake. Can you imagine the outrage if they told the person to stop first aid and it later emerged that the person could have been saved? The Daily Mail would have a field day!

This is very true. :cool:

barbiedoll

I would have thought that moving a dead body out of a car would be the last thing that should be done, your parents didn't know how he died, the car could have been a crime scene!

I hope your mum is feeling better, it must have been an awful shock to come across this. She shouldn't feel bad at refusing to do as she was asked, I can imagine that most people would be reluctant to do so.

It may be worth following up the call with a senior call handler to ensure that the correct procedures were followed. The operator who was dealing with your mum may need a little more training, sadly, you can't always teach common sense.

Tiddlywinks

The call handler had no way to know how 'dead' the person was... she simply could not rely on the word of an unknown caller.

Remember, the operator is 'blind' and there are set processes to be followed based on the information available. As far as she knew, a man had been found in a car... not breathing. He may have only just stopped breathing... hence trying to encourage an attempt at CPR.

If that man in the car had been your dad, and you heard at the coroner's hearing that the call handler had not been insistent on checking his pulse etc... how would you be feeling? You'd always wonder if he could have been saved.

Better to chance offending the living than miss the opportunity to possibly save a dying man.

skivenov

Georgiegirl256 wrote: »

Why would you find it hard to take someone's pulse?

I believe there was a study a few years ago that proved even doctors can quite often miss a pulse.

Not saying your mums for no common sense, she obviously has, but the call handlers have to assume the caller could be wrong and that there's a chance of preserving life, evidence of a crime is secondary to the chance of saving life. Likewise, some people can embellish their medical qualifications on the phone, and, from experience, in person.

Tiddlywinks

barbiedoll wrote: »

I would have thought that moving a dead body out of a car would be the last thing that should be done, your parents didn't know how he died, the car could have been a crime scene!
.

Crime scenes are regularly disturbed in order to access and treat injured parties. It's not unusual for victims to be gravely injured after an incident... The priority is always to preserve life first, preserve evidence then where possible.

Horace

Yes it is distressing but Tiddlywinks is correct with regard to the procedure. The operator is not there and has to give instructions to check for a pulse etc - the idea is to preserve life. Only a doctor can really say if a person is dead and the operator cannot take the word of a lay person.

I don't think that the way in which the call was handled is worthy of a complaint. Hopefully your mum would have been able to explain to the police and the ambulance staff that she was unable to remove the man from the car by herself.

I hope that your parents have now gotten over the shock and I hope that the man who chose to take his own life is now at peace.

Hermia

skivenov wrote: »

I believe there was a study a few years ago that proved even doctors can quite often miss a pulse.

Not saying your mums for no common sense, she obviously has, but the call handlers have to assume the caller could be wrong and that there's a chance of preserving life, evidence of a crime is secondary to the chance of saving life. Likewise, some people can embellish their medical qualifications on the phone, and, from experience, in person.

I totally agree that you simply cannot trust what the member of the public is telling you. I have had to dial 999 a few times and just answered their repeated questions calmly even though I knew what I was doing.

It's also not just the case that people may embellish their medical qualifications, they may also be really out of date. My friend works in a medical centre and has been on the hardcore week-long first aid course. If someone collapses she takes responsibility and the GPs just provide back-up help. They say she is actually far more qualified to do that then a GP who never gets to practice emergency medicine and hasn't been on the course she has.

pogofish

From what I remember from courses at work some years back, is that there is only one situation where an ordinary member of the public can pronounce a death - when the subject's head is destroyed/separated from the body.

In all other situations, the emergency services have to go with the presumption of some possibility of life, however small, until a doctor tells them otherwise and pronounces death.

So whilst it may well have been very distressing to your mother, it is also the case that they had to act the way they did because of their duty to try and preserve life.

It might well be worth discussing her situation with someone senior but I'd personally stop short of making it a full-on complaint. I see this as a pretty impossible and unfortunate situation for both sides.