Did the 999 responder act correctly? Very sensitive question

Person_one

CRANKY40 wrote: »

I'm 5 ft 1 and I have trouble lifting my 9 year old son who weighs 5 stone. Would there not be a risk that if you were pulling someone out of a car they could land on their head thereby finishing off any chance however small of saving them anyway? If I had been able to manage to pull the person out there would be no way I'd be able to control their landing.....

If this person had been in with any chance of survival, it wouldn't matter if you broke bones or covered them with bruises giving CPR. Nobody should be putting themselves at risk, but its ok to basically drag someone or let them drop to the ground if that's the only way they're going to get any oxygen to their brain. 8 minutes waiting for an ambulance is a long time without blood flowing.

phill99

I was a first aid instructor with the Army for a number of years. We always taught that the only person who can confirm death is a doctor. We therefore taught that attempts at resuscitation had to be undertaken until help arrived, someone else took over or you were physically unable to continue.

The call handler was doing exactly as protocol and procedures dictate. It doesn't matter whether the caller was an ex nurse or 67 years old. The patient may not have been dead.

If the person found was not actually dead but the call handler had not insisted that CPR was not undertaken and the person subsequently died, the call handler would be in serious trouble.

Person_one is also correct. If somebody undertakes CPR and saves a life, the fact that a few bruises (or typically broken ribs if CPR is done correctly) is irrelevant. A life with a broken rib is better than no life at all.

Tiddlywinks

Mojisola wrote: »

Given the information that rigor mortis had set in and that the caller was a 67 year old lady who was getting very distressed, it could have been handled more sensitively.

The call handler cannot make a judgement of death based on the word of a passer-by.... that is the way it is.

So, with the assumption that there is still a chance of revival, the operator will ask for attempts at CPR.

As to sensitivities, it was an emergency and, in my experience, there are many reactions to such events from stunned inaction right through to hysterical overreaction. The handler may well have been firm and repetitious in her instructions BUT let's not forget that there was potentially a life at stake here.

Mojisola

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

The call handler cannot make a judgement of death based on the word of a passer-by.... that is the way it is.

And neither can a call handler force a stranger on the end of a phone to do anything.

Tiffany_Aching

Mojisola wrote: »

And neither can a call handler force a stranger on the end of a phone to do anything.

They didn't force her to. Based on her nursing experience. she made the choice not to do it because she was aware that the gentleman had died some time before he was found.

Person_one

Mojisola wrote: »

And neither can a call handler force a stranger on the end of a phone to do anything.

Of course not, but they do sometimes have to be very firm. Its impossible to say without hearing the call if they were using an appropriate level of 'pushiness'. The OP's mum was in a very stressful and upsetting situation at the time so her interpretation may not be at all what the handler intended.

Have you ever watched that '999 What's your emergency' programme? They were often pretty firm and forthright, but it did save lives.

Mojisola

gingin wrote: »

The pressure continued for my mother to pull the man out of the car. The dispatcher wouldn't let up with my mother who was becoming more distressed herself who ended up having to leave the phone there and go and join my father.

Tiffany_Aching wrote: »

They didn't force her to. Based on her nursing experience. she made the choice not to do it because she was aware that the gentleman had died some time before he was found.

The dispatcher kept on the pressure until gingin's Mum couldn't take it any more and walked away from the phone.

System

Person_one wrote: »

Have you ever watched that '999 What's your emergency' programme? They were often pretty firm and forthright, but it did save lives.

They were also unlikely to act inappropriately if the tv cameras were filming them.

Mojisola

Person_one wrote: »

Have you ever watched that '999 What's your emergency' programme? They were often pretty firm and forthright, but it did save lives.

These programmes only show selected incidents - usually with a happy outcome. They are hardly likely to show cases where the person dialling 999 is made to feel so upset by the dispatcher that they walk away from the incident.

There has to be a balance between the need to attempt resuscitation and the capability of the person on the spot to cope with the situation.

Janepig

Last year myself and DH were at home late in the evening when there was an enormous bang from outside (woke the kids up, etc...). When we went to see what had happened we found a woman wandering around asking for help as her car had "blown up". She said she was fillling her lighter with gas, my belief is that she'd been inhaling the gas, she lit a cigarette and "booooom". Doors were blown out, boot blown out, etc.... She was surprisingly unscathed, I climbed into the car to retrieve her handbag, and her family arrived to take her to hospital (telling us that she'd done a similar thing only afew months before).

Anyway, about half an hour later the Police and Fire Brigade turn up and I went out to tell them what I knew. Afew minutes later the Policeman knocked on the door to tell us we had to leave as they were evacuating the immediate area. Luckily our elderly neighbour was awake and we were able to sit with her and also explain to her what was going on as she was a bit worried.

The reason the emergency services were worried is because of "chemical suicide" which has apparently become prevalent in recent years. There is a mixture of chemicals that it is fairly easy to concoct and people go and sit in their cars, take one breath of this stuff and then goodnight! Clearly this didn't seem to apply in this situation (I'd even climbed into the car myself!) but they had a protocol to follow and didn't want to take a chance because obviously there's a danger to anyone approaching the car if this is the method of suicide used.

So in a long winded way, what I'm coming to is that I'm surprised that this call handler wanted the OP's mum to open the car door or get anywhere near to be honest, if what I was told by the emergency services and also what I read on t'internet about chemical suicide is true. And perhaps for this reason if I was the OP I would at the very least make some enquiries with the ambulance service.

Jx