not sure if I can appeal an ANPR Ltd PCN

gig_goer

Hi all

I'm another newbie with a concern over a PCN that's been slapped on my car in a private pay and display car park. Ive searched through a great number of threads and while the issuing company appear to be well known, I can't quite find a similar situation.

The car was parked in a small P+D car park in Warrington town centre at around quarter to seven on a Friday evening while I attended a music concert at a near by venue. The was a sign near by which stated the charges, these being.

Not exceeding 1hr.................£2.00
Not Exceeding 2hrs...............£3.00
Not Exceeding 3hrs...............£4.00

All Day Ticket (mon / sat 7am/7pm) £5.00
All Night (7pm/7am) £2.00
Sunday all day ticket .............£2.00

Due to the time of arrival I was genuinely unsure of how to progress, so I paid £5.00 thinking that the machine would automatically switch into the night rate within the paid period (i.e £2.00 of the charge to cover the 15-20 minutes before 7pm and the rest for the all night portion) as the machines in my home town do. (which would have actually been a £1.00 overpayment) so between running back to the car in the middle of a downpour and wanting to get to the venue asap I didn't notice the expiry time on the ticket was listed as quarter to ten !

I arrived back at the car after a great gig to find the PCN on the screen saying i'd overstayed the time paid for

The issuing company ANPR Ltd.com are demanding £100 for liquidated damages due to breach of contract with the land owner :eek:

The car park was less than half full when I entered and even emptier when I returned, the car was positioned within the markings and not in anyway causing an obstruction, so I can't see how their claim for £100 is reasonable. If I was at fault there would be no likely hood of lost earnings from the loss of the parking space due to capacity etc so at most a charge for the difference in hours (even though I over paid)

I've tried to call ANPR on the phone and they refuse to accept complaint or appeals via the phone or email or discuss what to me is an obvious misunderstanding of the machinery in use and the terms of use of the car park.

There is nothing on the sign that says that the night rate charge can't run in concurrence with the pre night charge and at the time of payment there is now way to invoke the night rate meaning I would have had to pay the pre 7pm cost of £2.00 (1hr) and then leave the venue to pay the night rate after 7pm which is impractical and the cynic in me thinks this is a cleverly planned shake down

Help and advice gratefully accepted before they set the debt collectors on me :eek:

Redx

forget "what happened" and just follow the help in the NEWBIES thread at the top of this forum

dont look for similar situations, most are the same type of sc*ms that use silly or petty rules to shake down vehicle owners into loading massive charges onto minor ones

Guys_Dad

I agree. The facts are immaterial to winning arguments at POPLA.

However, I assume you have the ticket still? What does it say about the time you actually bought according to the machine?

Umkomaas

ANPR Ltd are the joke of the PPC world. They just can't get anything right. Most of their crew didn't get a 'tick' at school until they were fourteen, the rest never managed it at all.

'Mr ANPR' is Trevor Whitehouse, affectionately known as 'oor Trev' or 'Trev the Clamp' erstwhile founder of National Clamps and the brilliance behind his own invention 'ANPR in a Box' which he claimed could identify shoplifters, terrorists and illegal immigrants. Put his name into the search engine here and spend a side-splitting weekend reading of his exploits.

There are a couple of current cases running over on PePiPoo too, so I've linked them below for you.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=87940

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=89413

But to get back to your specific case, do read the NEWBIES sticky as per Redx's advice which will help you see oor Trev orf!

gig_goer

Thanks for the replies, off to the the newbies thread now, but yes I have the PCN, the pay and display ticket and images of the sign and how the car was parked on my phone.

time in on the ticket was 18.42

Quick edit....

Ive had a read through the newbie thread and looked at the flow chart etc and have a few questions

Are ANPR considered to be the same as P4parking,NCP ,SIP,Jas and are they members of the IPC? Looking on the anpr website they claim to be in the BPA.

Also, my PCN states they will request the keep details from DVLA after 28 days but they don't cite Sect 4 POFA, is this something that usually comes on the invoice?

Umkomaas

gig_goer wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, off to the the newbies thread now, but yes I have the PCN, the pay and display ticket and images of the sign and how the car was parked on my phone.

time in on the ticket was 18.42

Quick edit....

Ive had a read through the newbie thread and looked at the flow chart etc and have a few questions

Are ANPR considered to be the same as P4parking,NCP ,SIP,Jas and are they members of the IPC? Looking on the anpr website they claim to be in the BPA.

Also, my PCN states they will request the keep details from DVLA after 28 days but they don't cite Sect 4 POFA, is this something that usually comes on the invoice?

They are NOT members of the IPC; they are currently BPA members - goodness only knows why, because the hash they make of things should have garnered them enough BPA sanction points to have put them out of business completely.

They are not like the other PPCs you mention (if this is in the context of appealing early); just wait for Trev to send you the NtK - between days 29 and 56 after your parking event - he can quite easily screw up the dates.

This outfit are not one you should have any concerns about. They don't do court (I doubt they would want the way they conduct their 'business' exposed to a judge). You will have to deal with some B/S paperwork, which is quite amusing in the sense that not much of it makes any sense, except in la-la land!

We'll always help with reassurance along the way if you have any concerns.

Do come back if you've any questions not already covered in the NEWBIES sticky, or to keep us up to date with progress - and provide us with some mirth and merriment!

Umkomaas

And as if by magic, up pops a brand new ANPR Ltd thread here on the forum, detailing some of the laugh-a-minute B/S you too will get.

Forewarned is forearmed. But B/S nonetheless .

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/65360396#Comment_65360396

gig_goer

Umkomaas wrote: »

They are NOT members of the IPC; they are currently BPA members - goodness only knows why, because the hash they make of things should have garnered them enough BPA sanction points to have put them out of business completely.

They are not like the other PPCs you mention (if this is in the context of appealing early); just wait for Trev to send you the NtK - between days 29 and 56 after your parking event - he can quite easily screw up the dates.

This outfit are not one you should have any concerns about. They don't do court (I doubt they would want the way they conduct their 'business' exposed to a judge). You will have to deal with some B/S paperwork, which is quite amusing in the sense that not much of it makes any sense, except in la-la land!

We'll always help with reassurance along the way if you have any concerns.

Do come back if you've any questions not already covered in the NEWBIES sticky, or to keep us up to date with progress - and provide us with some mirth and merriment!

Thank you for the update and the information, for clarity are you saying I shouldn't bother to write to them now to dispute the charge, but wait for the 28 day invoice to arrive ? I've never had to do anything like this before.

Reading the threads it seems they really are a law unto themselves

hoohoo

It does actually seem like you underpaid. You said the 7pm-7am fee is £5, and the fee for up to an hour is another £2.

You paid £5 so are short £2.

Having said that, this is the amount you own, plus a reasonable collection charge; say £10 at most.

You should therefore win if it ever gets to the POPLA stage.

Redx

gig_goer wrote: »

Thank you for the update and the information, for clarity are you saying I shouldn't bother to write to them now to dispute the charge, but wait for the 28 day invoice to arrive ? I've never had to do anything like this before.

correct, as can be seen in the flow chart linked in the newbies sticky thread (also in the posts in that thread too)

gig_goer

hoohoo wrote: »

It does actually seem like you underpaid. You said the 7pm-7am fee is £5, and the fee for up to an hour is another £2.

You paid £5 so are short £2.

Having said that, this is the amount you own, plus a reasonable collection charge; say £10 at most.

You should therefore win if it ever gets to the POPLA stage.

Sorry my mistake, for some reason i listed the night rate as £5.00 the same as the day rate, but I described it correctly in the text as £2.00 which is how i came to the £1.0 over payment conclusion I mentioned.

I still have the image of the sign and it's definitely £2.00 from 7PM to 7AM.