Suspended - help please

RiverStar

RiverStar wrote: »

Hi
Yes I'll be observing and reporting here but keeping quiet otherwise.

Well..TorryQuine and l found we had a common interest, so that distracted me for a little while. No more ruminating tonight, I'm off to bed now.

Thanks guys for all your support.

Hi philanthropist,

My company is a big employer with branches all over Britain (not retail though).

I've just had a letter hand delivered inviting me to attend investigation meeting on friday. It states that she (temp mgr/accuser) will be handling it.

So far, do you think this is following proer procedure as to who handles things?

PHILANTHROPIST

RiverStar wrote: »

Hi philanthropist,

My company is a big employer with branches all over Britain (not retail though).

I've just had a letter hand delivered inviting me to attend investigation meeting on friday. It states that she (temp mgr/accuser) will be handling it.

So far, do you think this is following proer procedure as to who handles things?

Ideally, the person conducting the investigation should have no connection with the allegation, so they can find out the facts in a fair and reasonable manner. For larger employers it is considered bad practice (but not unlawful per se) to have the "accuser" conduct the investigation. I would not suggest that you tell them that their conduct to date is prima facie bad practice. Let them dig their own hole.

I trust the invite letter has made it clear that at the investigatory meet , disciplinary action will not be considered. Further, has your employer made it clear in writing that suspension is
not considered a disciplinary action. Again, if the employer has not done so, do not correct them ! Your time will come.

In your employee handbook and in particular in the section on "disciplinary" issues does your employer grant you the discretionary right to be accompanied at the investigatory meet. It's unusual to do so, but some decent , larger employers do allow an employee to be accompanied at such meets. If disciplinary proceedings were to commence then at any related hearings etc you are entitled to be accompanied by a union rep or a work colleague.

A final tip. You may be asked to sign notes of the investigatory meet there and then. Refuse. Ask for a copy and say you will revert with comments (if any) within 48 hrs. Some folk discreetly tape such one to one meets ; rather risky, but if ultimately you end up (god forbid) in an employment tribunal such evidence can be admissible.

Often employers have a note taker present from HR. Again I'd refuse . Two against one is not really fair. Your temp manger should be competent enough to be able to write and take notes. May mean the meet lasts a bit longer, but so what. Alternatively, you can be of immense assistance and offer to prepare the notes ; they'll love that lol

Whatever you do, and its not easy, be confident, and if there is any question asked which makes you feel uncomfortable, write it down , tell them that such a question comes across as an unfounded accusation and make a fair and reasonable request that in the circumstances that you take advice and reply in writing in due course. Do not let them bully you.

RiverStar

PHILANTHROPIST wrote: »

Ideally, the person conducting the investigation should have no connection with the allegation, so they can find out the facts in a fair and reasonable manner. For larger employers it is considered bad practice (but not unlawful per se) to have the "accuser" conduct the investigation. I would not suggest that you tell them that their conduct to date is prima facie bad practice. Let them dig their own hole.

I trust the invite letter has made it clear that at the investigatory meet , disciplinary action will not be considered. Further, has your employer made it clear in writing that suspension is
not considered a disciplinary action. Again, if the employer has not done so, do not correct them ! Your time will come.

In your employee handbook and in particular in the section on "disciplinary" issues does your employer grant you the discretionary right to be accompanied at the investigatory meet. It's unusual to do so, but some decent , larger employers do allow an employee to be accompanied at such meets. If disciplinary proceedings were to commence then at any related hearings etc you are entitled to be accompanied by a union rep or a work colleague.

A final tip. You may be asked to sign notes of the investigatory meet there and then. Refuse. Ask for a copy and say you will revert with comments (if any) within 48 hrs. Some folk discreetly tape such one to one meets ; rather risky, but if ultimately you end up (god forbid) in an employment tribunal such evidence can be admissible.

Often employers have a note taker present from HR. Again I'd refuse . Two against one is not really fair. Your temp manger should be competent enough to be able to write and take notes. May mean the meet lasts a bit longer, but so what. Alternatively, you can be of immense assistance and offer to prepare the notes ; they'll love that lol

Whatever you do, and its not easy, be confident, and if there is any question asked which makes you feel uncomfortable, write it down , tell them that such a question comes across as an unfounded accusation and make a fair and reasonable request that in the circumstances that you take advice and reply in writing in due course. Do not let them bully you.

Re first point - there are other managers available who couldve done investigation so its not as if shes the only one.

Re letter - investigation letter says its a meeting, no mention of anyone accompanying me.

Re - hr note taker - dont know who it will be, perhaps same one as before or another because of previous discrepancies, now edited.

No letter states the possible outcomes being warning or dismissal etc.

I think if l say anything about two against one, she'll say that notetaker is just taking notes.

In first letter re suspension, it states that suspension is neutral act but l know this was a standard suspension letter.

Good advice re refusing to sign investigation minutes.

PHILANTHROPIST

Ok. Chill on note taker ... so long as you can review notes in your own time and seek advice re a written reply to any leading questions then that will be "on the record".

So far I'd give your employer a 5 out of 10 for adhering to good practice. I sense that number may drop over time.

RiverStar

PHILANTHROPIST wrote: »

Ok. Chill on note taker ... so long as you can review notes in your own time and seek advice re a written reply to any leading questions then that will be "on the record".

So far I'd give your employer a 5 out of 10 for adhering to good practice. I sense that number may drop over time.

You're right..time to chill a bit and not start to stess out again.
I agree, for a large employer, they think they are doing everything by the book, but don't really have a clue. ( not just saying this, ive thought it for a while)

Thanks again for all your advice and support and I'll keep you posted and I'll try not to worry too much for next three days.

Shazza122

From my experience employers can decide willy nilly what constitutes GM!! Over ten working days and I'm still waiting to hear when my appeal will be looked at....not holding my breath!!

PHILANTHROPIST

Shazza122 wrote: »

From my experience employers can decide willy nilly what constitutes GM!! Over ten working days and I'm still waiting to hear when my appeal will be looked at....not holding my breath!!

Yes, you are right Shazza.

Appeals are also sadly pointless. Even employment judges know , but wont admit that, they are a farce or a sham. I should know !

Shazza122

Philanthropist my ex employer have made it clear by their actions that they see the appeals process as simply something they have to do....I know there is no chance of getting my job back but if I decide to consult a lawyer I understand that not appealing could be held against me....

PHILANTHROPIST

Shazza122 wrote: »

Philanthropist my ex employer have made it clear by their actions that they see the appeals process as simply something they have to do....I know there is no chance of getting my job back but if I decide to consult a lawyer I understand that not appealing could be held against me....

Re above. Technically you are correct. Many lawyers act for clients on employment matters who have not appealed. They should not hold it against them. I would not recommend engaging an employment solicitor. Sadly most do not offer value for money and are overly cautious. Many are incompetent and do not act for claimants ; not enough money in it. If you need legal advice go to a barrister via direct access for a say 1 hr max meet (£150 plus VAT ?) ; far more cost effective and you will get specialist advice there and then.

You have appealed so the consequences of a failure to appeal is a mute point. However, in theory a failure to appeal may be held against you, but whilst employment judges will not openly admit to this, they do acknowledge in private consultation that appeals in the modern day are a complete sham. If in a tribunal setting an employee is on balance able to show that they had reasonable reason to believe that they no longer had trust and confidence in the employer's handling and/or the fairness of their disciplinary/ appeal process then the Judge has discretion to ignore the failure to appeal. A claimant would not lose a case because of such an oversight. I have never seen it happen, but in all likelihood the worst that may happen is any compensatory award may be reduced ..by say up to 10%.

Ozzuk

Just wanted to say good luck for tomorrow, let us know how you get on!