Stop the Ambulance Chasers

colino

No ABS system, even the earliest ones, could work as basically as that. The ecu does detect variations in wheel speed, but has a band of variation built in, otherwise when going round corners the ABS would kick in as the outside wheel would be travelling a wider arc than the inner wheel. You may be confusing the really "advanced" recent ones that link into DSC and you can confuse them enough on ice that the car stops putting power to any wheel.

Ebe_Scrooge

I sometimes wish cars were more basic, like they used to be. No ABS, no TC, no ESP, which some people seem to think will allow them to drive with gay abandon and the technology will look after them. What happened to learning how to control the car yourself, drive to the conditions, use cadance braking if necessary .... And !!!!!! is hill-start assist all about ! Do kids these days not have to learn how to do a hill-start ????


eeeh, I remember when all this were fields .....

Stoke

Ebe_Scrooge wrote: »

I sometimes wish cars were more basic, like they used to be. No ABS, no TC, no ESP, which some people seem to think will allow them to drive with gay abandon and the technology will look after them. What happened to learning how to control the car yourself, drive to the conditions, use cadance braking if necessary .... And !!!!!! is hill-start assist all about ! Do kids these days not have to learn how to do a hill-start ????


eeeh, I remember when all this were fields .....

Like I said Ebe, I made a mistake I was merely pointing out that ABS might, have helped. The key point to my story was that I made a mistake, and the guy I hit is taking the !!!!.

gilbert_and_sullivan

Ebe_Scrooge wrote: »

I sometimes wish cars were more basic, like they used to be. No ABS, no TC, no ESP, which some people seem to think will allow them to drive with gay abandon and the technology will look after them. What happened to learning how to control the car yourself, drive to the conditions, use cadance braking if necessary .... And !!!!!! is hill-start assist all about ! Do kids these days not have to learn how to do a hill-start ????


eeeh, I remember when all this were fields .....

Goodness, someone actually gets it, well said.

Ebe_Scrooge

Stoke wrote: »

Like I said Ebe, I made a mistake I was merely pointing out that ABS might, have helped. The key point to my story was that I made a mistake, and the guy I hit is taking the !!!!.

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be a dig at you. I've been driving for over 30 years now, if I said I'd never made a mistake I'd be lying. But there do seem to be a heck of a lot of people who don't really know the art of proper driving, and just rely on all the electronic wizardry to ( hopefully ) keep them out of trouble, and feel they can drive how they like, safely cocooned in some sort of impermeable force-field :-)

Stoke

Ebe_Scrooge wrote: »

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be a dig at you. I've been driving for over 30 years now, if I said I'd never made a mistake I'd be lying. But there do seem to be a heck of a lot of people who don't really know the art of proper driving, and just rely on all the electronic wizardry to ( hopefully ) keep them out of trouble, and feel they can drive how they like, safely cocooned in some sort of impermeable force-field :-)

You're absolutely right. Part of the problem, at least in my opinion is how they're being taught. I've had my license for 6 years ago, but even then, my instructor was trying to feed me some rather odd advice which I refused to accept. Here's a good one... she'd placed little sticker dots on the door panel and the window. Why? When reversing parking, using her 'weirdly' worked out formula, you can basically use those dots to park in a bay perfectly every time. So you reverse back till this point lines up with this, then full lock over, then when you hit this point you full lock over again or something ridiculous. I said that isn't learning how to bay park, that's just learning how to dump your car in a space using a steering wheel. What about spacial awareness etc? And a bigger car?. Ultimately, I passed my test in my own car and I learnt how to bay park by practicing in a parking lot for a few hours.

To think though, she's teaching people how to park that car like that, christ almighty.

OnanTheBarbarian

But they are teaching you how to pass a test, that's all they are bothered about.

I've just passed my bike test (been a car driver for over 20 years). My mate said, great, you've passed your test, now go and buy a bike and learn how to ride. It's true.

Like anything in life, it's about experience and common sense.

vaio

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

Most ABS systems will still kick in on snow, because there is still some resistance. It's on sheet ice that there is virtually no resistance at all. So if all 4 wheels lock, and the system can't detect any force trying to turn the wheels, then it assumes that you are parked. If the system was too sensitive then ABS would try to cut in if you were stationary on a hill, holding the car on the foot brake, and it would try to continually brake and release......

Surely if all four wheels are locked then the engine is stalled too?

Jamie_Carter

colino wrote: »

No ABS system, even the earliest ones, could work as basically as that. The ecu does detect variations in wheel speed, but has a band of variation built in, otherwise when going round corners the ABS would kick in as the outside wheel would be travelling a wider arc than the inner wheel. You may be confusing the really "advanced" recent ones that link into DSC and you can confuse them enough on ice that the car stops putting power to any wheel.

I presume you were replying to my post?? If so, did you actually read it??


If you didn't understand, then just ask, rather than replying by discussing something completely different.

Jamie_Carter

Ebe_Scrooge wrote: »

I sometimes wish cars were more basic, like they used to be. No ABS, no TC, no ESP, which some people seem to think will allow them to drive with gay abandon and the technology will look after them. What happened to learning how to control the car yourself, drive to the conditions, use cadance braking if necessary .... And !!!!!! is hill-start assist all about ! Do kids these days not have to learn how to do a hill-start ????


eeeh, I remember when all this were fields .....

I do agree with you. However you will never take away the panic factor in an emergency situation for many people.


There are two main reactions when suddenly faced with an obstruction in front of your vehicle.

• The first reaction is to hit the brakes hard. And unless the driver is experienced at late braking, then it is unlikely that they will know how hard they can brake without locking the wheels. So the most common results (pre ABS) were that all 4 wheels would lock up. This would mean that the braking effect was reduced, and there would be no steering control.
• The second reaction (especially when it is obvious that braking alone won't avoid a collision), is to try and steer around the obstruction. If the front wheels are locked, then this is impossible. If the front wheels are very close to locking, then the attempted change in direction could lead to the wheels locking, again resulting in a loss of control.

Cadence braking will solve this problem, but only people used to driving on the limit (racing drivers) would be able to do this better than an ABS system.