Finding a job following dismissal for gross misconduct

Shazza122

Thanks everyone for your posts!! Just got home after a long day so will read them in more detail at the weekend.

Just wanted to say you folk have been amazing and a total god send over the last couple of weeks!!!!!

sugarbaby125

I am so relieved for you that you got the temp job for 8 days. You have taken the first step back to being in permanent full time work. I wish you all the luck in your future employment. Take one day at a time. Try not to despair to the point that you do not celebrate the successes in your life, like your loving, caring, supportive OH. You made a naive mistake, there was no intent to defraud, or theft.

I have been pushed out of 2 posts in the past. I made the mistakes of alerting management to serious breaches of practice and I also had to take out a grievance against my deputy manager in the 1st job and my manager in the 2nd job.

In the 1st job, they put me on disciplinary that was so laughable, that I was apparently making a negative comment about a colleague in a team meeting, when I moved position on a chair!

I was told my 2 year contract would not be renewed and they did not even bother to officially give me 4 weeks notice as per my contract. I was able to claim four weeks pay in lieu of notice, once I had left their employ. I knew I was entitled, as one of my sister's is a highly respected and experience HR Consultant.

In the 2nd job I had to make a complaint about a colleague who threatened a child with violence on more than one occasion. She was subject to disciplinary action, there was a thorough investigation and it was only when I was called to give evidence for the disciplinary hearing that I realised that the Deputy Manager had also reported the same colleague for the same offence. Yet, in the end, the colleague was allowed to keep her job. This colleague then set about doing a hate campaign against me, so in the end I started a grievance against her for harassment. The grievance had hardly started, when I was called into a meeting out of the blue by management and given 4 weeks notice. I had not worked for this very well known Union for 2 years and even though they were aware I was a single mother, they were ruthless. I ended up on Income Support, after being in my highest paid job in my entire employment history.

I found a new job in the same field and went from strength to strength.

There is always light at the end of the tunnel, even if we struggle to see it.

Take care of yourself and your other half. I hope you both prosper. You need to forgive yourself for this mistake. You have already learnt everything you need to learn from this mistake, you did not deserve to be dismissed for GM.

katiecoughdrop

Shazza I'm so glad you've managed to move on from this horrible experience. My husband was dismissed for GM at the beginning of last year, we never thought it would end in dismissal just a warning. I agree with aniother poster that the company may also have been looking to get rid of him. We knew that interviews would be a problem and decided to say that it had been by mutual agreement and imply he couldn't discuss the terms as though it had been a compromise agreement.
In the end he went self employed and the company that he is now working for wasn't bothered about why he left. Ironically they take work from his old company too! We were advised that, particularly in Engineering, being self employed seems to depend less on previous references, companies seem more interested in your experience.
It has worked out for us after a lot of worry and if he moves on he has a gap which he can give a reference for.
Hope you get back into permanent work soon!

FLAPJACK

Well done Shazza.....

riehl

all the best, hope it works out for you

tezza34

they aint allowed to tell the other employer wat you been sacked for the can just refuse to give a refrence and that's pretty much about it.

Torry_Quine

tezza34 wrote: »

they aint allowed to tell the other employer wat you been sacked for the can just refuse to give a refrence and that's pretty much about it.

I'm afraid that's not true. They can say the reason you were sacked.

FLOX_2

I haven't been in your position but I have worked in HR for years. I hope some of the following is useful
- Re the appeal , I suspect given the date of your post the deadline for this has past however for the record, you can appeal even if you fully recognise that you did wrong. Often not recognising you were in the wrong or not being honest about is the surest way to a dismissal or a failed appeal. You can appeal against the sanction being too harsh (they could have given you a final written warning instead of dismissing) e.g. first offence, previous good record, issue was re understanding/ being aware of the policy not deliberate attempt to do wrong, you fully recognise your mistake etc.

Moving on looking for a new job
- There is no obligation and no reason to declare a dismissal in an application or on your CV unless specifically asked for by a new employer
- If you are not asked at interview why you left your last employer (not likely I know, but possible) you do not have to explain
- If you are asked your reason for leaving, which is more likely, don't lie BUT keep your answer very brief and to the point, a couple of sentences is all it needs, recognise your error and what you've learnt and move the conversation swiftly on to what you can offer them. Practise, practise, practise what you will say at home first. This is a very difficult and emotional issue for you and you will have a tendency to want to talk about it and justify yourself (the interviewer honestly doesn't have the same level of interest). I've seen this happen, and it can end up making the person look worse or at the very least put all the focus of the interview on to the dismissal and not the positives. If they want/ need to know more than the basics they will ask
- Be aware that depending on the policy of the new company that if you don't declare the dismissal (AND this matters to them, it won't matter to all companies) then you could run the risk of being dismissed for lying at interview. The stance a company will take will depend on the sector they are in, the policies they have etc. (so for example anything honesty related in Financial Services or Pharma is a complete no-no). That said, I recently had an example of someone who had not mentioned a dismissal at interview and for whom it did come up in a reference after he'd started. He was dismissed as a result but not, and I must stress this, for having been dismissed previously but for lying about it - kept changing his story - when he was asked about it following the reference coming in (in the 2 months he'd been with us he'd been a great worker and the manager was not keen to let him go, and wouldn't have done if he'd been up front when asked)
- I'm not recommending lying at all but some people use a very non-commital "personal reasons" when asked why they left a job. There can be many reasons people don't want to share why they left which have nothing to do with being dismissed. You may be asked to elaborate, but if you move the conversation swiftly on to why you want the job. what you can offer you might be surprised at how few people will push for further details, or actually even notice you didn;t fully answer the question. You would of course have to balance that against the risk they find out you have been dismissed and how much it is likely to matter for the role you're in. There are consequences both ways of being scrupulously honest and you have to balance those.
- Standard references which give only basic info are the norm these days, most large employees only give minimal, standard info irrespective of whether you were their best or worst performer. It is irrelevant what is asked for in a reference request, a company that only gives standard references will only give out the standard template so if you know what is on yours you can be confident that they won't reveal anything else. The key is that some companies standard references include a reason for leaving and some don't. If you're not 100% sure ask the HR team to confirm, they should do this for you.
- It is possible to get a job after being dismissed. I have had a number of reference requests for people I know have been dismissed. I have also employed people who have declared a dismissal.
- You are obviously marketable if you have 2 interviews already. Focus on your skills and experience, the positives you bring and, and I know this is hard, don't dwell on one mistake. The focus of any interview you go to must be all on the good stuff and as little as possible, if at all, on the mistake
- It may be easier to get some temp jobs to bridge the gap, this also obviously makes it much easier to answer the question about why you left your last job
- Good luck

ridvimes

Noticed you appealed and that they did another of questionable things including p45 before consideration, same people doing investigation etc, appeal again & remember you may have grounds for unfair dismissal claim.

I suggest that you contact your household insurers to see if you are paying for legal expenses insurance and then get on their hotline, send them the paperwork and then follow their advice.

If not covered do use the redundancy forum if can get advice there first but also write to company that you appeal again & to advise them that you intend to take them to the tribunal due to failures in the disciplinary process, the level of sanction and the failure to investigate. That should shake them up a bit.

You might want to consider (assuming you just want to get a good reference and control what they say about you) to speak to the legal expenses/ advisers and draft a proposed compromise agreement ( eg with notice pay (worth asking) ) that you left by mutual agreement not termination for breach of contract and include it "without prejudice" at the top a draft reference that you would be happy for a potential employer to receive. The compromise agreement should have a financial consequence of them not doing this so you can rely on it after your right to go to tribunal has passed.

purpleweasel

Shazza122 wrote: »

It's just covering holidays but as well as the money being handy it's made me feel a wee bit more confident I'm not totally unemployable!!

Well done, i think you're doing the right thing by temping. I left a job about 10 years ago, constructive dismissal really but confidence was so low i didn't fight it. I went on to a temp agency and had a couple of contracts and although it was a bit scary it did wonders for my confidence. It was good as it meant i had an alternative reference and didn't have to contact the **** i used to work for. It can also open up other areas of work - i got my current job as a result of temping and i love it but never would have thought about this area of work otherwise! Good luck!