Effect of Scottish Independence Vote

grey_gym_sock

TCA wrote: »

So what makes you think the concession could not be won by Scotland? That's a devil's advocate question.

no country is in practise forced to join the euro, even without the concession. for instance, sweden have no concession, and have even been judged to have met all the criteria for joining the euro, but haven't joined because they don't want to.

scotland would probably have to agree that they will theoretically join the euro at some time, as a condition of EU membership, but this is a purely theoretical commitment.

i think negotiating EU membership would be a surmountable obstacle for an independent scotland.

the choices about currency are more tricky. the options are to use the pound without a currency union, or to create a scottish pound, or to join the euro . all these options have some problems.

they could start by using the pound without a currency union, but create their own currency later on. (which i think is what the republic or ireland did.)

grey_gym_sock

ColdIron wrote: »

Remember, Scotland cannot issue its own bonds

do you mean it can't issue its own bonds in sterling, without a currency union? it can, just as various countries issue bonds in US dollars. though this has drawbacks.

planteria

atush wrote: »

Because the rest of Europe WANTED the UK and denmark in, and so that was the bargain struck.

I can't see scotland having any political or other capital to be able to make such a deal, esp as we can see some countries won't want an independant Scotland in. Such as Spain.

In fact, I think the rest of europe are a bit peeved about the UK special concessions, they won't be looking to hand out more lol

that is right, they won't. but that is more for their own political and 'power' reasons, rather than that they will not fancy Scotland joining them. i suspect a lot of EU member states would actually quite like to have Scotland in the EU and using the Euro. but that doesn't mean Scotland can 'stay'...they'd be out, potentially trying to get in, and not be approved. it is actually very clear.

TCA

planteria wrote: »

don't you? i don't think it should be, but that seems to be the impression given. perhaps, as referred to above, the SNP will push through independence and then the Scottish people will elect people who actually have the sense to not want to join the EU afterall. i would like to see that.

I'm sure there was a recent poll with most concerned about jobs, health, education etc....

planteria wrote: »

you must get it by now, and are just trying to get a rise.. Scotland isn't going to be left behind, within the EU, if England, Wales & Northern Ireland leave. in the scenario outlined, the Jocks are first out:p

I'm not fishing. I missed the vital bit where you said if rUK opted out. I was just countering the scaremongering from some that borders would be set up even if UK remained in the EU.

planteria

grey_gym_sock wrote: »

scotland would probably have to agree that they will theoretically join the euro at some time, as a condition of EU membership, but this is a purely theoretical commitment.

interesting, but i think the desire for more integration has intensified, and that the EU countries will be pressing ahead with fiscal as well as monetary union. Scotland is likely to either be in that, or out. unless it suits all member states, which it currently doesn't, they will be out.

TCA

grey_gym_sock wrote: »

no country is in practise forced to join the euro, even without the concession. for instance, sweden have no concession, and have even been judged to have met all the criteria for joining the euro, but haven't joined because they don't want to.

scotland would probably have to agree that they will theoretically join the euro at some time, as a condition of EU membership, but this is a purely theoretical commitment.

i think negotiating EU membership would be a surmountable obstacle for an independent scotland.

the choices about currency are more tricky. the options are to use the pound without a currency union, or to create a scottish pound, or to join the euro . all these options have some problems.

they could start by using the pound without a currency union, but create their own currency later on. (which i think is what the republic or ireland did.)

Thanks. Sweden is an excellent case in point.

atush wrote: »

Because the rest of Europe WANTED the UK and denmark in, and so that was the bargain struck.

I can't see scotland having any political or other capital to be able to make such a deal, esp as we can see some countries won't want an independant Scotland in. Such as Spain.

Why would the rest of Europe want Denmark in and Scotland out? Despite Barroso's fear for Catalonia, I'm yet to hear Spain declare officially that they would veto Scotland.

planteria

TCA wrote: »

I'm sure there was a recent poll with most concerned about jobs, health, education etc....

I'm not fishing. I missed the vital bit where you said if rUK opted out. I was just countering the scaremongering from some that borders would be set up even if UK remained in the EU.

no problem. i think a border between England and Scotland would be required if Scotland was part of a much more integrated EU and The UK, or more specifically England, was outside of the EU.

it is not beyond the realms that Scotland leaves the UK and that both Scotland and the UK are non-EU countries. but i think Scotland, incidentally along with the Catalans, and certainly the Basques, will be very keen to be part of the EU if they can manage to break free of from the clutches of their oppressive evil neighbours.

Archi_Bald

TCA wrote: »

Which is exactly how it works with the Republic of Ireland. Why are you and anyone else putting forward this argument, not shouting for a border between Northern Ireland and ROI?

We are currently all in the EU, so the question doesn't arise yet. With Scotland, it is different. The minimum Ms Sturgeon should do is offer the potential options.

Ooops, I forgot, the SNP doesn't do various options, they only have one plan.

planteria

TCA wrote: »

Thanks. Sweden is an excellent case in point.

but times have changed. it is now a case of 'pile all the way in' or 'stay all the way out'.

TCA wrote: »

Why would the rest of Europe want Denmark in and Scotland out? Despite Barroso's fear for Catalonia, I'm yet to hear Spain declare officially that they would veto Scotland.

i think they have made it clear. and it is accepted in Madrid, Barcelona and Bilbao that Spain will veto Scotland joining the EU. this September's election will be watched extraordinarily closely in Spain. and let's be clear, they don't give a stuff about You or I or Scotland or England...they have their own agendas.

Spain allowing Scotland to pave the way for the Basques to clear off with their tax take is simply not going to happen.

TCA

ColdIron wrote: »

Tab for its fiscal policy decisions: tax rates, government spending, budget deficit, borrowing etc. Remember, Scotland cannot issue its own bonds

I wouldn't have thought the SNP is expecting funding from the UK in an independent Scotland. They have agreed to pay a fair share of the humongous UK debt position but I'm not aware of them seeking any more than that. As grey gym sock said, Scotland can issue bonds if it wants.