Effect of Scottish Independence Vote

planteria

TCA wrote: »

Lol. Even more reason why he doesn't speak for Spain! Mea culpa. His rantings about Spain and Kosovo threw me a wobbly!

. he wasn't ranting. i saw it, briefly, and he was just stating the facts.

planteria

grey_gym_sock wrote: »

incorrect. nobody is going to force sweden to join the euro.

if you wonder why not, given the genuine push for greater EU integration, then just think how it would play politically if they tried to force a country to join, against the will of its democratically elected government. they don't want to encourage countries to leave the EU.

they had committed to join, but yes, they cannot be forced. however, the EU will finish up being more integrated, with fiscal and monetary union, or it will fall apart. agreed?

ColdIron

TCA wrote: »

The SNP have always said they'd pay Scotland's share of the UK debt. They just want a share of the assets too. The Bank of England and the pound being assets in this case. There's no bargaining going on yet

It would seem that the SNP and it's leader have different definitions of always and no bargaining then

Alex Salmond has renewed his threat that Scotland could refuse to pay its share of the UK's debt

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/13/no-currency-union-indpendent-scotland-george-osborne

planteria

TCA wrote: »

I'll be interested to see if Salmond has anything new to offer tomorrow in his promised rebuttal of all Osborne's reasoning.

i like the idea that he's in a position to rebutt;)

planteria

ColdIron wrote: »

It would seem that the SNP and it's leader have different definitions of always and no bargaining then

Alex Salmond has renewed his threat that Scotland could refuse to pay its share of the UK's debt

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/13/no-currency-union-indpendent-scotland-george-osborne

i actually found that embarrassing to read. Scotland can't leave the UK and retain membership of the EU or of Poundland.

TCA

ColdIron wrote: »

It would seem that the SNP and it's leader have different definitions of always and no bargaining then

Alex Salmond has renewed his threat that Scotland could refuse to pay its share of the UK's debt

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/13/no-currency-union-indpendent-scotland-george-osborne

Where does it quote Salmond as threatening not to pay?

"All the debt accrued up to the point of independence belongs legally to the Treasury, as they confirmed last month – and Scotland can't default on debt that's not legally ours," the statement said. "However, we've always taken the fair and reasonable position that Scotland should meet a fair share of the costs of that debt. But assets and liabilities go hand in hand, and – contrary to the assertions today – sterling and the Bank of England are clearly shared UK assets."

For those saying Salmond wants to have his cake and eat it, the Osborne stance sounds similar to me. The Scots can share the overdraft but not the house it bought? Pretty thin ice describing the BofE and the currency as assets perhaps, but Salmond is hardly likely to be giving any ground at this stage. It's given him the perfect opportunity to portray the UK government and Labour as he sees them and I think it's hit a nerve with the Scots too. None of it helps his goal of a currency union, if they're true to their word, but Salmond will be more concerned at the referendum result first.

Henry McLeish, a former Labour first minister of Scotland, said there would be an immediate backlash in Scotland against Osborne's attack on the currency proposal. It would increase support for independence, by angering many wavering Scottish voters and building up their sense of alienation.

Insisting he would vote no to independence, McLeish told the Guardian: "The great danger for them is that the no campaign now is losing votes because it's so relentlessly negative, with no empathy for Scotland at all. [A lot] of people will say 'we're sick of this, these threats won't work'."

grey_gym_sock

planteria wrote: »

the EU will finish up being more integrated, with fiscal and monetary union, or it will fall apart. agreed?

no, not agreed. (does that settle it? )

fiscal union is needed to make monetary union workable. and they're trying to tack the fiscal union on afterwards, in a crisis. (which is a funny way to go about it.)

but that says nothing about how many countries join the monetary union. there's no reason why all EU members have to.

markwilkinson

Its getting boring now. Give the vote to the English tomorrow, Scotland would be out on its !!!!.

TCA

markwilkinson wrote: »

Its getting boring now. Give the vote to the English tomorrow, Scotland would be out on its !!!!.

Indeed. And if Scotland is such a worthless drain on UK resources, I'm surprised any English politicians are for the union at all. The Tories especially would fare much better without the Scottish Labour support to trouble them at elections.

ColdIron

markwilkinson wrote: »

Its getting boring now. Give the vote to the English tomorrow, Scotland would be out on its !!!!.

Yup, it's been a good debate but I'm out of here

My final observation is that if I was a Scottish voter with my hand hovering between Yes and No I'd want a lot more clarity and honesty than Salmond appears willing to give before exchanging membership of the UK for the uncertainty of whatever it is he's offering