EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

BallsMan

40. In respect of the Claimant’s request for an unlocking code, the Respondent
submits that handsets sold on the Respondent’s network are ‘locked’ for use
solely on the Respondent’s network by the manufacturers of the handsets. The
Respondent avers that the unlocking codes which will ‘unlock’ most handsets
from the Respondent’s mobile network, to enable the handset to be used on any
other applicable mobile network, are provided by the manufacturer of the
handsets and not by the Respondent. The Respondent submits that such is
standard practice for all mobile network operators and denies, if such is alleged,
that such practice is in breach of Agreement, statute or otherwise.
41. Whilst in accordance with Clause 14 the Device falls outside of the Agreement,
and notwithstanding the above, the Respondent submits that it can request from
the manufacturers the unlocking codes. The Respondent submits that it does not
offer a guarantee that that all handsets can be unlocked as such is outside of the
Respondent’s control or knowledge as unlocking codes are unique to each
individual IMEI number of a particular handset and information regarding
whether or not a particular handset can be unlocked can only be provided by the
manufacturer.
42. The Respondent confirms that it has no record of any request from the Claimant
for the provision of an unlocking code at any time or at all. The Respondent
confirms that there is no contractual or legal obligation to provide a handset
unlocking code and the Claimant is therefore put to strict proof as to his
contention in relation to this remedy sought. The Respondent denies, if such is
pleaded, that any failure to provide an unlock code is a contractual breach of the
Agreement or that such renders the Handset inoperable and the Claimant is
hereby put to strict proof.
43. The Respondent submits in any event that the Claimant has provided no evidence
which confirms that a handset would be unlocked at a later date and therefore,
the Claimant has no grounds to his claim.
44. The Claimant claims the sum of £100 in compensation. The Respondent denies
that the Claimant is entitled to compensation in the sum of £100 as pleaded or at
all. If the Claimant had suffered actual loss he would have pleaded that damage
as a quantified sum and furthermore provided evidence to support such a claim.
The Claimant has not done so and as a consequence is not entitled to any
compensation. The Claimant is hereby put to strict proof as to his purported loss.
45. The Respondent denies that it is liable to the Claimant as pleaded or at all in
respect of this matter and submits that the Claimant’s claim should be dismissed
in its entirety.
The Respondent believes that the facts stated in this form are true. I am duly
authorised by the Respondent to sign this statement.
Dated the 3rd June 2014

(Text removed by MSE Forum Team)

BallsMan

My 1st email asking for termination sent 19 Feb.

No answer from Orange till April when I went direct to CISAS.

All the time using RC'S (thanks) well prepared templates.

Please help me with my response to Orange Defence.

dazz7400

[FONT=&quot]I sent my CISAS claim in twice because I didn't state the amount of compensation I would like to claim for against EE and was told to resubmit my claim.


I returned the form claiming £100 compensation and also a penalty free cancellation of my contract.[/FONT]


I then received an email from (Text removed by MSE Forum Team)


[FONT=&quot]Thank you for your amended application.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We are unable to proceed at this stage as 8 weeks from your first complaint has not elapsed and you have not provided a deadlock letter from the company.[/FONT]

You must provide clear evidence that you have been in dispute for more than 8 weeks. If you have such evidence please attach the documents by return of this email. If not, you should contact the company and complete their formal complaints procedure.

[FONT=&quot]Kind regards[/FONT]

(Text removed by MSE Forum Team)
[FONT=&quot]Case Administrator


I sent my first letter to EE on/around the 17th April.

Do I need to wait until after this date before contacting CISAS again?!

Also.. What is this "deadlock letter from the company" she mentions?

I'm at a loss...

Thanks.
[/FONT]

LoopLife

RandomCurve wrote: »

judging by the defence you must have sent a different case to CISAS than the standard template on this site. Can you post your full CISAS case so I can put this defence into context?

I sent some of the templates to EE and after they rejected each one I sent a very very brief summery to CISAS

Apology Required: No Explanation Required: No Action Required: Terminate contract penalty free. Bill Action Required: No Money Required: �0.00 Product or Service required: No Summary of the claim: Poor signal at my address, tried calling on various occasions and no reply after at least 15-30 minutes waiting to get through to someone. My non direct debit payment says £3 on my contract, yet they're charging me £3.50. Price increases which I don't agree with, I'm over paying for no signal in the first place.

Nodding_Donkey

Do you have an email from EE that says "and this is our final position on this" or similar?

dazz7400

Nodding_Donkey wrote: »

Do you have an email from EE that says "and this is our final position on this" or similar?

This is the reply I received a month ago or 2..



EE Account Number : XXXXXXXXX

I am sorry you are unhappy with the recent change in your terms and conditions I must advise you are able to seek independent advice from CISAS.

Under Ofcom regulations all communication providers must subscribe to an independent adjudication scheme, EE is a member of the Communications and Internet Services Adjudication Scheme (CISAS). If you so wish you may seek advice on this matter from CISAS, contact details for CISAS are:

CISAS
International Dispute Resolution Centre
70 Fleet Street
London
EC4Y 1EU

Email : [EMAIL="info@cisas.org.uk"]info@cisas.org.uk[/EMAIL]

Phone no. 020 7520 3827


Please be advised EE now considers this case to be closed.

Yours sincerely

Executive Office, EE



I take it this is what she is referring to?

So, I have to wait 8 weeks from the date of that email I received from EE before CISAS will proceed with my case?


She says I must supply them with clear evidence..

I have just checked my email inbox and I cannot find the email from the 24th April which I posted on here, post #1403

Will she expect me to forward the email? Or can I just copy+paste?


Thanks for replying, Nodding Donkey

Nodding_Donkey

You don't have to wait 8 weeks, the above is your deadlock letter, the important bit is:
"Please be advised EE now considers this case to be closed."

You only wait 8 weeks if the other side keep faffing about pretending they are looking for a resolution.

What you need to do now is submit a case to CISAS, it's all described earlier in this thread. You will need to forward e mails (or scans of letters if they were sent snail mail) as part of your case.

RandomCurve

BallsMan wrote: »

My 1st email asking for termination sent 19 Feb.

No answer from Orange till April when I went direct to CISAS.

All the time using RC'S (thanks) well prepared templates.

Please help me with my response to Orange Defence.

If the first email of 19th Feb was for (or included) the phone contact referred to then you should be able to simply prove (as EE have requested) that you sent the emails and received the responses). If you put "read receipts" on your emails even better. The rest of the defence is then just standard. Re send the email and the read receipts to CISAS (with the headers) and just add something like "attached is the proof which EE have requested. This demonstrates further just how poor a service I have received from EE in regards to this matter and my claim should not be dismissed due to EEs inability to maintain records to the required standard, indeed if anything the adjudicator should consider if further compensation should be made available due to EEs woeful lack of customer care."


if your claim is "out of time" then I would approach as follows:


"EE are claiming that I am unable to seek a remedy as my claim is out of time as I have not followed the correct process. However if the adjudicator considered that the change in T&Cs is of Material Detriment to me (regardless of the timing of my claim) then EE have not fully complied with GC 9.6 as they did not fully explain my rights to a penalty free cancellation when notifying me of a change to T&Cs. Regardless of if this was an innocent oversight by EE in the honest belief that the change was not of Material Detriment the fact remains that EE have not complied with GC 9.6 and I was not put on alert - as I should have been - that I had a right to a penalty free cancellation. It would be inappropriate to hold me strictly to the rules by not allowing my claim, whilst at the same time allowing EE to by-pass the rules of GC 9.6 . I therefore request that the adjudicator considers my case in full as presented, or rule that the notification received was not in accordance with GC 9.6 and therefore as I am still to receive the proper notification, and until such time as notification in the prescribed format is received my contract will be subject to the original T&Cs, which clearly state that I can cancel my contract if the price rise "higher than RPI OR ANY OTHER measure of inflation" - as CPI was only 1.7% for February 2014 then EE have used a rate (2.7%) which triggers my right to a penalty free cancelation."


That should have them tied up on knots!!!

Liliya

Thanks for all your help with this RC. I posted a while back about having emailed Orange. I submitted my case to CISAS at the beginning of May. I didn't get my defence until last Thursday as EE didn't receive my supporting documents from CISAS and were therefore granted an extension.

I'm on a pre Oct 2012 contract and have until Thursday to get my comments in.

I've successfully completed a few SCC cases in other areas, but EE's defence is just off the scale in terms of complexity and missing the point. Without your help RC I think I would have just drowned in the 22 pages of legalese that they sent me by way of defence and given up (which is of course, entirely what they wanted.)

hammersfaniow

Took my PAC code to my friend who has just started working for a telecoms company, now got a new iphone, unlimited minutes & texts which I can also use abroad which is handy as I work away sometimes, with 10g of data and thanks to his discount I'm paying £18pm. Now I have to ring a contact at Orange who will cancel everything and raise the cheque for what I'm owed.


Massive thank you to Random Curve for all the help along the way for myself and so many others too. I may not have even bothered making a fuss before I saw this thread, but it goes to show how companies think they can change contracts unjustly and I'm so pleased nearly everyone on here has had some success.