EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

Dave92en

Thanks RC, could you just confirm for me which post number contains the template I should send, and where to add in the additional points?
Thanks again.

RandomCurve

Dave92en wrote: »

Thanks RC, could you just confirm for me which post number contains the template I should send, and where to add in the additional points?
Thanks again.

Posts #617 and #618 - also see #1161.


You need to read that post and align the paragraph numbers to the paragraph numbers in your response from EE (para numbers are different in almost all defences) and just add the new bit when you get to Para 33 (it may actually replace some of post #1161).

Dave92en

Ok thank you, would someone mind proof reading it once I've done the cutting and pasting? I genuinely get a bit lost reading the points and don't want to lose my car because of it! Also would lower our win percentage and we don't want that!

RandomCurve

Dave92en wrote: »

Ok thank you, would someone mind proof reading it once I've done the cutting and pasting? I genuinely get a bit lost reading the points and don't want to lose my car because of it! Also would lower our win percentage and we don't want that!

It would be useful if you posted the completed response to the defence, not only so it can be checked, but it will make it clearer for others too.
Please reference the post number of EEs Defence when posting.

Dave92en

Ok great, I will have it done tomorrow afternoon once I get onto a laptop.
Thanks for the help.

sshariff

That's me almost out of my EE contract now. Switched to Three sim only (12 month) at £ 9.90 a month along with a £60 automatic cashback through my company discount scheme. Works out at £5 a month. Extremely delighted considering that I was paying £30 a month for my orange contract!

Good luck to those whose CISAS cases are still pending. It's all down to how well you defend your case, especially your comments to EEs defence.

Finally another thank you note to RandomCurve for all his efforts:)

sargie

Hi everyone i sent rc's email on the 09/04/2014 and recieved my response this morning.

Case Reference:
Account Number:

Dear ,

Thank you for your email dated 9 April 2014, received in the Executive Office, I have been asked to respond on behalf of EE.

I am sorry you are unhappy with the recent increase to our prices and some of our services. As a company we are committed to investing significantly in our network and work hard to give the best value for our service, we have in this instance tried to keep these increases to a minimum. However due to rising business costs linked to inflation we have had to revaluate our pricing structure.

In this instance, the increase to price plans is in line with RPI at 2.7% and compliant with the Terms and Conditions of your contract. Our Terms and Conditions give us the right to increase the cost of our services and this change does not give you a right to terminate your contract. Please refer to clause 3.7 in your Terms and Conditions.

Whilst I understand this is not the outcome you were looking for, I trust I have clarified EE's position regarding this matter.

Yours sincerely



Victoria Hunt
Executive Office, EE

NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER
This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended for the above-named person(s). If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, delete this email from your system and do not disclose or use for any purpose.

We may monitor all incoming and outgoing emails in line with current legislation. We have taken steps to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus, but it remains your responsibility to ensure that viruses do not adversely affect you.

EE Limited
Registered in England and Wales
Company Registered Number: 02382161
Registered Office Address: Trident Place, Mosquito Way, Hatfield, Hertfordshire, AL10 9BW

Am i out of luck or can i still proceed? Is there a specific template email that i should use to reply?

Any help is greatly appreciated and thank you to RC for his templates.


This is the email that i sent to ee.

Dear Mr Swantee,

Thank you for your letter of early April informing me of EEs intention to increase the price of my Fixed term Contract.

Please accept this letter as my notice to terminate my contract PENALTY FREE under Ofcom Regulation GC 9.6 as the increase is likely to be of Material Detriment to me. Please also provide me with a PAC so that I can take my number to another network.

Without Prejudice.
The term “likely to be of Material detriment” in the regulatory context can be determined by understanding why the term was introduced into GC 9.6 by OFTEL and retained by Ofcom, and by reference to the source European documentation for GC 9.6 which is the Universal Service Directive (USD) USD 20/(22) for which GC 9.6 is the UK enactment. It is clear that the intention of USD 20/(22) was to give the CONSUMER the choice to cancel their contract during a fixed period for ANY modification that is made which they do not accept as follows:

USD 2002/22/EC
Chapter IV – End User Agreements
Article 20 – Contracts
Paragraph 4

4. Subscribers shall have a right to withdraw from their contracts without penalty upon notice ofproposed modifications in the contractual conditions. Subscribers shall be given adequate notice, not shorter than one month, ahead of any such modifications and shall be informed at the same time of their right to withdraw, without penalty, from such contracts, if they do not accept the new conditions.

Further Ofcom GC 9.6 supports the USD implementation as the term "likely to be of material detriment" was introduced because:

"Our intention was to reflect our general duties and principles of good administration and proportionality in particular. We sought, in light of these, not to rule out contract variations altogether. For example, those beneficial to, or having a neutral impact on, a subscriber.” (from Ofcom publication “ Price rises in fixed term contracts - Decision to issue Guidance on General Condition 9.6”, Published in October 2013”

As Ofcom's (and OFTEL before them) reasoning for introducing the term was to protect me - the consumer - from changes which are not to my benefit or at the very least are neutral then a price rise of any kind is clearly neither to by benefit, nor neutral, and are therefore likely to be of Material Detriment.

Without Prejudice
The price rise applied of 2.7% (RPI) is of likely to be of material detriment to me as it is a REAL TERMS increase in the cost of my contract. The UK National Statistic for price inflation is the CPI (1.7% for February 2014 – published in March 2014) therefore any increase above this rate under GC 9.6 is likely to be of material detriment to me, as a real terms increase cannot be either to my benefit OR have a neutral impact. By using RPI rather than CPI the increase applied to my account is 58.8% higher than it would otherwise be.

RPI lost its designation as a National statistic in March 2013 as the calculation methodology does not meet with international calculation standards and has been replaced with CPI which is the statistical measure of inflation now used by Government.


Without Prejudice
In the Ofcom publication “ Price rises in fixed term contracts - Decision to issue Guidance on General Condition 9.6”, Published in October 2013. Ofcom defined “Likely to be of Material Detriment as follows:

Paragraph 6.22
“In particular, we consider guidance is needed as to price rises which we are likely to regard as materially detrimental (or likely to be materially detrimental) and invoking the requirements of GC9.6. Such price rises are likely to include any increase to core subscription prices.”

The above definition is to apply to contracts agreed to on or AFTER 23rd January 2014. However as EE updated its’ price variation clause effective 26th March 2014 (2 months after the date to which the definition applied) then this clause of the contract was effectively agreed to and signed up to post 23rd January and therefore as per the Ofcom guidance in regards to GC 9.6 the increase in core subscriptions price is likely to be of material detriment to me.

Without Prejudice
In the Ofcom publication “ Price rises in fixed term contracts - Decision to issue Guidance on General Condition 9.6”, Published in October 2013. Ofcom defined “Likely to be of Material Detriment as follows:

Paragraph 6.22
“In particular, we consider guidance is needed as to price rises which we are likely to regard as materially detrimental (or likely to be materially detrimental) and invoking the requirements of GC9.6. Such price rises are likely to include any increase to core subscription prices.”

And whilst Ofcom have announced that this will only apply to contracts entered into on or after 23rd January all Ofcom have actually done is clarify a definition. They have not changed the words of GC 9.6. As they have only clarified a definition then the definition must apply to all contracts as it cannot be a legally correct position that two contracts subject to the same regulation with exactly the same wording (GC 9.6) can have two different meanings.

I look forward to receiving my PAC (penalty free) with immediate effect. Should EE not consider this to be an appropriate action then please clearly articulate why this is not the case with reference to each of the points above. Any response which fails to address the specific points above would not be acceptable to me and will be used as evidence of EE’s lack of duty of care and poor customer service in any subsequent CISAS claim.

Rob_3188

Ive just had a similar response from EE for my contract...
ear Mr Perrin,
I am sorry you are unhappy with the recent Price Increase. As a company we are committed to offering the best value for service which is why we have kept the increase to a minimum. The increase is a result of the rising costs to our business and is in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI), which is a measure of inflation.
We are obliged, as are all UK operators, to abide by General Condition 9.6 of the Ofcom. This condition sets out what we must do if a change is of material detriment to a customer, which is to provide 30 days' notice and allow a customer to end their agreement free of charge. When the changes are not of material detriment, the customer does not have the right to end their agreement. In the case of this price increase, the change is not of material detriment to customers.
The increase is in line with the Terms and Conditions of your contract specifically clause 15.1). As the increase is less than RPI should you wish to close the account early in accordance with clause 4.3.1 you would be subject to an early termination fee.
　
　
　
EE do not feel that this change is of material detriment to you as it is in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI), which is a measure of inflation. I acknowledge you do not agree with this decision therefore the next step would be to seek independent adjudication via CISAS.
You may refer your complaint to CISAS. CISAS will determine whether the complaint falls within the jurisdiction of its ADR Scheme. We may argue that it does not. If CISAS agrees its Scheme applies, it will adjudicate on the complaint in line with the Scheme rules. CISAS's details are as follows:-
CISAS
International Dispute Resolution Centre
70 Fleet Street,
London,
EC4Y 1EU
Email: info@cisas.org.uk
Tel: 020 7520 3827
Fax: 020 7520 3829
Yours sincerely
　
　
Executive Office,EE
ear Mr Perrin,
I am sorry you are unhappy with the recent Price Increase. As a company we are committed to offering the best value for service which is why we have kept the increase to a minimum. The increase is a result of the rising costs to our business and is in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI), which is a measure of inflation.
We are obliged, as are all UK operators, to abide by General Condition 9.6 of the Ofcom. This condition sets out what we must do if a change is of material detriment to a customer, which is to provide 30 days' notice and allow a customer to end their agreement free of charge. When the changes are not of material detriment, the customer does not have the right to end their agreement. In the case of this price increase, the change is not of material detriment to customers.
The increase is in line with the Terms and Conditions of your contract specifically clause 15.1). As the increase is less than RPI should you wish to close the account early in accordance with clause 4.3.1 you would be subject to an early termination fee.
　
　
　
EE do not feel that this change is of material detriment to you as it is in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI), which is a measure of inflation. I acknowledge you do not agree with this decision therefore the next step would be to seek independent adjudication via CISAS.
You may refer your complaint to CISAS. CISAS will determine whether the complaint falls within the jurisdiction of its ADR Scheme. We may argue that it does not. If CISAS agrees its Scheme applies, it will adjudicate on the complaint in line with the Scheme rules. CISAS's details are as follows:-
CISAS
International Dispute Resolution Centre
70 Fleet Street,
London,
EC4Y 1EU
Email: info@cisas.org.uk
Tel: 020 7520 3827
Fax: 020 7520 3829
Yours sincerely
　
　
Executive Office,EE


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What's the best way to contact these guys, is there a template one can use like when contesting the change in T&C and the price increas?
Thanks in advance guys.. this forums great
Regards
Rob

jon1555

sargie wrote: »

Hi everyone i sent rc's email on the 09/04/2014 and recieved my response this morning.

You'll want the price rise thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4818999

This Thread is for the Change in terms and conditions that came into effect on 26th March.

jon1555

Rob_3188 wrote: »

Ive just had a similar response from EE for my contract...

You'll want the price rise thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4818999

This Thread is for the Change in terms and conditions that came into effect on 26th March.