EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

03029174

I finally got my response from EE today (for people waiting on an initial response, i sent the email to executive.office@ee.co.uk & Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk on the 12th of April.

My reply is from Victoria Hunt and basically says the increase to price plans is in line with RPI at 2.7 percent and compliant with the t&c's of my contract. This is quoted "Our Terms and Conditions give us the right to increase the cost of our services and this change does not give you a right to terminate your contract"

What a shocking statement! Then is says to refer to clause 7.1 in your terms and conditions.

Would it be possible for someone who has won their case to do a post of the messages they used in one post on this thread. I'm getting alittle confused following particular post numbers which seem quite old and i've been following the thread and there seems to be little updates here and there and i know how important it is to get your responses perfect.

I would really appreciate if someone could post a summary of the whole process and promise to do the same when my claim reaches its conclusion

Robc99

RandomCurve wrote: »

You contacted them in time so you should be fine - remember to adjust the template email when they respond to say "further to my email dated X and my call to 150 on 26-03-14"

Finally got a reply!!

I'm sorry you are unhappy with the recent increase to our prices and some of our services. As a company we are committed to investing significantly in our network and work hard to give the best value for our service, we have in this instance tried to keep these increases to a minimum. However due to rising business costs linked to inflation we have had to revaluate our pricing structure.

In this instance, the increase to price plans is in line with RPI at 2.7% and compliant with the terms and conditions of your contract. Our terms and conditions give us the right to increase the cost of our services and this change does not give you a right to terminate your contract. Please refer to clause 3.7 in your terms and conditions.

EE do not feel that this change is of material detriment to you as it is in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI), which is a measure of inflation. I acknowledge you do not agree with this decision therefore the next step would be to seek independent adjudication via CISAS.

You may refer your complaint to CISAS. CISAS will determine whether the complaint falls within the jurisdiction of its ADR Scheme. We may argue that it does not. If CISAS agrees its Scheme applies, it will adjudicate on the complaint in line with the Scheme rules. CISAS's details are as follows:-

CISAS
International Dispute Resolution Centre
70 Fleet Street,
London,
EC4Y 1EU

I take it this would be my deadlock letter, where do i go from here (been searching for ages but i guess theres different options depending when my contract date started (January 2013 and depending on the response

Im guessing now contact CIAS and go from there??


EDIT: Answered my own question (I Think) I have filled out the online application form with CISAS using template found between post numbers 267 -> 269

I'll leave my post as is, in the hope others get an idea of what to do without going through loads of pages

jon1555

03029174 wrote: »

I finally got my response from EE today (for people waiting on an initial response, i sent the email to executive.office@ee.co.uk & Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk on the 12th of April.

My reply is from Victoria Hunt and basically says the increase to price plans is in line with RPI at 2.7 percent and compliant with the t&c's of my contract. This is quoted "Our Terms and Conditions give us the right to increase the cost of our services and this change does not give you a right to terminate your contract"

What a shocking statement! Then is says to refer to clause 7.1 in your terms and conditions.

Would it be possible for someone who has won their case to do a post of the messages they used in one post on this thread. I'm getting alittle confused following particular post numbers which seem quite old and i've been following the thread and there seems to be little updates here and there and i know how important it is to get your responses perfect.

I would really appreciate if someone could post a summary of the whole process and promise to do the same when my claim reaches its conclusion

Just to check,

You rejected the change in terms and conditions and not the price rise?

Seems they sent you the reply to a price rise reject!

03029174

Hi jon1555

Yes I sent the price rise email, (was that the wrong one?) I'm on a £45 pm contract and believe the increase is significant over the remaining 6 months of my contract. can i also check the next step is the CISAS form?

Thanks for the help

Indie_Kid

Not received a response from Orange. Sent an email two weeks ago and have phoned EE twice who told me that because its within RPI, I can't get out of my contract penalty free.

jon1555

03029174 wrote: »

Hi jon1555

Yes I sent the price rise email, (was that the wrong one?) I'm on a £45 pm contract and believe the increase is significant over the remaining 6 months of my contract. can i also check the next step is the CISAS form?

Thanks for the help

Next step will be cisas.

Did you use randomcurves templates?

This thread was for rejecting the change in terms that happened in March.

There's a thead that is specific for people have rejected the price rise ;
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4818999

Most people on that thread have received the same email and I think they're about to start cisas claims.

Hope that helps!

ryan92

RandomCurve wrote: »

Okay the below is an additional item to go with the response at post #1161




Para 33.5 & 33.6


EEs defence at these paragraphs falls down on a number of different points:


Point 1:


As in the regulatory context the Ofcom definition of Material Detriment is “any change that is neither of Benefit nor Neutral to the consumer” (i.e Material Detriment = Detriment), then EEs defence here where they clearly explain the ACTUAL negative impact on me has to (under Ofcoms GC 9.6 own definition) be of Material Detriment to me (it is neither to my benefit nor neutral).





Point 2:


EEs own definition of Material Detriment within the old contract was that a change in the “…All Items Index of Retail Prices or any other statistical measure of inflation published by any government body authorised to publish measures of inflation” would be of Material Detriment


Now EE are trying to argue that an increase higher than CPI (but lower than RPI) is not of Material detriment, how can EE change their own definition of Material detriment? This clearly demonstrates that EE does believe an increase above CPI (which is the Official (and only National) statistic for UK inflation) is of Material detriment, otherwise they would not have had that clause in the original contract..





Point 3


EE Have provided a comparison of RPI v CPI over the period March 2012 and February 2014 and claim that the average difference is 0.5, however that is not the same as a difference of 0.5% but a difference of 0.5 of a percentage point which = an average of 18.9% higher. However the only relevant statistic is the February 2014 statistic as this is the month that EE use to reference price rises. As can be seen the difference here is 1.0 percentage point or 58.8% higher. Using EEs example of a £30 contract that means the increase moves from £30*1.7% = 51p to £30*2.7% = 81p – an additional increase of 30p per month (58.8%) higher than would have been allowed under the old contract term and 100% higher than the example that EE have quoted – clearly showing the potential for the change in T&Cs to LIKELY to be of Material Detriment.


The longer term prospect of both indices as provided for by the Office of Budget responsibility in their publication “Working Paper No2 - The Long-run difference between RPI and CPI inflation published in November 2011 by Ruth Miller (http://cdn.budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/Working-paper-No2-The-long-run-difference-between-RPI-and-CPI-inflation.pdf)


where it is generally considered that the difference between the two indices is likely to increase. This must be something that EE economists and price setters would be aware of and it begs the question why the legal team are not up to date on this other than to try and mislead the adjudicator.





Ruth Miller





Office for Budget Responsibility





Abstract




Between 1989 and 2011 Retail Prices Index (RPI) inflation tended to be around 0.7 percentage points higher than Consumer Prices Index (CPI) inflation on average. Recent developments suggest that the long-run difference between these measures may be significantly higher in the future. This paper decomposes the differences in RPI and CPI inflation and looks at the prospects for the evolution of the wedge between the two measures over the long term. Possible methodological developments to the CPI and RPI could have a substantial impact on the difference between RPI and CPI inflation, and constitute one of the main uncertainties surrounding the long-term difference between the two measures.


1.5 For a number of years a widely held view was that the long-run difference between RPIX and CPI inflation rates was around ¾ percentage points.2 Indeed, since around 1989, RPI and RPIX inflation have tended to be around 0.7 percentage points higher than CPI inflation, on average.


1.6 However more recent developments suggest that the long-run difference is likely to be significantly wider in the future. The March 2011 Economic and fiscal outlook (EFO) stated that the long-run difference is expected to be around 1.2 percentage points between RPI and CPI inflation. This was based on the assumption that recent rises in the ‘formula effect’, one of the components of the wedge between the RPI and CPI, will begin to stabilise and the larger contribution from the formula effect in 2010 will persist.


So according to the Independent Office of Budget Responsibility the Material Detriment to me of using RPI rather than CPI is likely to INCREASE over time (current difference is 1% point or 58.8%).





Point 4:


EE have also failed to consider that (using their example) had they applied RPI under the old contract I would not have suffered a detriment of 30px12 (£3.60p) as I would have escaped my contract penalty free and would have saved 12x30.60p (£363.60p) (assuming an average of ½ way through my contract). So the actual detriment is (I can assure you) Material to me.





Point 5:


If as EE claim that the difference between CPI and RPI is not Material then why have EE decided to change the contract to allow the higher RPI inflation index to be used (which is not designated as National statistic due to flawed calculation methodology) rather than CPI – which is the UK national statistic for inflation? This must clearly demonstrate that EE considers the difference to be material.

Will my claim be a lot weaker given I don't have this nor the post the above also refers to!?

zcakg26

Hi Guys, I would greatly appreciate it if someone could point out the correct templates to use in proceedings with Tmob. I have been with them since June 2013 and looking for a penalty free cancellation due to the price rise.

I really do not want to mess up the start of my email proceedings with them so would just appreciate it if someone could just post a message with the structure to follow in the emailing process. It seems to be getting a bit confusing as there have been amendments to certain templates so i don't know what to use in particular.

Much thanks in advance

jon1555

zcakg26 wrote: »

Hi Guys, I would greatly appreciate it if someone could point out the correct templates to use in proceedings with Tmob. I have been with them since June 2013 and looking for a penalty free cancellation due to the price rise.

I really do not want to mess up the start of my email proceedings with them so would just appreciate it if someone could just post a message with the structure to follow in the emailing process. It seems to be getting a bit confusing as there have been amendments to certain templates so i don't know what to use in particular.

Much thanks in advance

You want the price rise thread

Start from post 74 and read from there

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4818999

jon1555

Indie_Kid wrote: »

Not received a response from Orange. Sent an email two weeks ago and have phoned EE twice who told me that because its within RPI, I can't get out of my contract penalty free.

Did you send an email rejecting the change in terms and conditions or the price rise?