Would you tell a child that NRP does not pay for them?

Alleycat

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I wish I could thank mumps' post more than once. Of course that's what parents do. Children should not be burdened with sordid aspects of life that are not of their making. Part of being a parent is protecting them from such stuff.

I don't see that telling her daughter need be revealing a "sordid aspect" of their lives. The daughter has asked a direct question i.e. can I have some of the maintenance money that dad pays you for a clothing allowance?

I think that whilst it is important that we do what we can as parnts to protect our children whilst they are still developing their emotions, we try and be as honest as we can with them. It need not be detrimental to their relationships with others if handled with care and tact.

The very fact that mum is working more hours and daughter still thinks maintenance is being paid leads to questions about why do we not have more money to spend on recreational activities to be in need of an answer. She can't just fob her off as that can and does lead to unjustified resentment building up.

Mum has obviously not taken her answer with a pinch of salt as she has confided with a friend and has taken the time to read what others think on the issue. She is not off handedly bad mouthed her ex as some would do.

Dad has made a decision that affects not just his immediate family unit. However it's not necessarily that he should be painted as the bad guy for this. Mum doesn't need to do that and I don't think intends to. I'm sure she has made the decision that she feels is right and will deal as best she can with any further questions her daughter wishes to ask.

FBaby

Children should not be burdened with sordid aspects of life that are not of their making. Part of being a parent is protecting them from such stuff.

This is where I totally disagree with you. Children are way too protected nowadays. We totally underestimate their intelligence, ability to analysis information and to be able to cope with negative events. This leads to young adults shocked to realise that there is a nasty world out there and unable to cope with it. All these people suffering from anxiety in their 20s just because of experiencing real life. Part of being a parent to me is not to protect your child from any potential harm, it is too balanced what is best avoided and what is best faced whilst providing as much mean to understand and emotional support during these times.

Without going into details, I had a very difficult emotional childhood, but looking back, I know that this what has made me strong and cope with life events that would have crushed me otherwise. My own experience makes me believe that children learn and cope much better with the truth then we give them credit for.

As I've said, my kids know their father doesn't pay maintenance. They are capable of balancing facts in their mind, that on one hand their dad is struggling financially, but that on the other hand he doesn't always make the right choices. Finding out that he doesn't pay maintenance and will prioritise his money for his new family hasn't broken their heart at all, they have the maturity to understand that they are lucky that I am able to offer them the life they have. The love their dad very much because they know money is not everything.

I have done everything to ensure they maintain a good relationship with their dad, but not a the cost of making them believe their dad is someone he isn't. They love him for who he is, just as they accept me for who I am too (ie. not perfect!).

seven-day-weekend

My son is 34. When he was a little boy, there was a family member who was verbally abusive to my husband. She was a close family memebr so we had to have contact. She really came out with some horrible, hateful and hurtful stuff.

If she behaved like this, when our son was there, I would take him home. We saw absolutely no reason why he should have to listen to it and be affected by it the way my husband had been (as it had been going on since he was a child).

That is what I mean by protecting your children. Why deliberately expose them to potentially harmful situations?

Pollycat

DUTR wrote: »

Not all near 300 replies that none have offered any logic as to why tell the child, I don't see the point other than to spite the NRP, there was another reply to the Dad will regret it later in years to come, sadly one of those threats that never really ring true, as mentioned earlier it seems it's just about bragging rights that have not come to fruition.

I disagree.

I posted this on 1/1/2014 at 10:59 am:

Pollycat wrote: »

I think this part of the original post is key.

The 12 year old is asking for more money to be spent on her in the way of a allowance to buy clothes out of the money she thinks her Dad is paying to her Mum.

I think the Mum should - because the girl has brought the subject up - tell her that her Dad does not pay her Mum any maintenance for her and her sibling.
I feel if she doesn't this may result in the 12 year old feeling that maybe her Mum is keeping money that is intended for her and her sibling.

Maybe this has been triggered by a friend saying she gets a clothes allowance from the money her Dad gives to her Mum.

Or - could it possibly be that the 12 year old is confused and is actually talking about child benefit rather than child maintenance?

Depending on the relationship between the parents, if I were the Mum I might be inclined to tell the Dad that his daughter has brought this up and she's been told the truth i.e. no maintenance paid = no clothing allowance and that as far as I was concerned that is the end of it and if the 12 year old has any questions, she needs to talk to her Dad about why/how the change in his lifestyle is impacting on her.

I think if the Mum does discuss this with the elder child she should be careful not to slate the Dad for not paying.

I have given a reason for the child to be told.

Why should the Mum hide the fact that the child's Father isn't paying maintenance to the possible detriment of her future relationship with her daughter through resentment against the wrong parent?

Pollycat

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I wish I could thank mumps' post more than once. Of course that's what parents do. Children should not be burdened with sordid aspects of life that are not of their making. Part of being a parent is protecting them from such stuff.

Isn't part of being a parent (even a NRP one) also contributing financially to your children, even if they are 'just' your first family and you've moved on and are enjoying life with someone else?

Let's not forget - this is not a guy who is unable to get work.
He's someone who had a well-paid job then decided it worked better financially for him to become a SAHD.
Sadly for his 'first' family, as a result of that decision it means he can no longer contribute financially to that family.

And let's not also forget that OP's friend has said that he could work a few hours a week to allow him to contribute - but he doesn't want to do that because it would impact on his family time.

poet123

mumps wrote: »

It certainly isn't right that mothers need to do it but I think it is right that they do it if they need to.

I agree, but I disagree this is an instance of needing to do that.

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

My son is 34. When he was a little boy, there was a family member who was verbally abusive to my husband. She was a close family memebr so we had to have contact. She really came out with some horrible, hateful and hurtful stuff.

If she behaved like this, when our son was there, I would take him home. We saw absolutely no reason why he should have to listen to it and be affected by it the way my husband had been (as it had been going on since he was a child).

That is what I mean by protecting your children. Why deliberately expose them to potentially harmful situations?

Again, with respect SDW that is not at all the same thing. You removed your child from a nasty situation which any good parent would do.

In the case we are discussing the child cannot be removed from the situation without fallout. Either she is allowed to continue to believe that her father pays money over for her when that is untrue, or she is told gently that is not the case and that she should ask him directly if she needs further details. Doing anything else in response to a straight and pointed question is lying by omission or otherwise.

seven-day-weekend

Pollycat wrote: »

Isn't part of being a parent (even a NRP one) also contributing financially to your children, even if they are 'just' your first family and you've moved on and are enjoying life with someone else?

Let's not forget - this is not a guy who is unable to get work.
He's someone who had a well-paid job then decided it worked better financially for him to become a SAHD.
Sadly for his 'first' family, as a result of that decision it means he can no longer contribute financially to that family.

And let's not also forget that OP's friend has said that he could work a few hours a week to allow him to contribute - but he doesn't want to do that because it would impact on his family time.

I agree he should pay.

Where I differ from the majority is that I don't think the girl's relationship with him should be jeopardised because he doesn't - for her sake, not his.

I think the mother could explain in a way that the girl is happy with and does not cause her to feel resentful towards either parent.

I agree that if she has asked outright about the maintenance then she should be answered truthfully.

Pollycat

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I don't think the girl should have to feel resentment to either parent, nor do I agree that she will feel resentful towards her mother if her mother just says, 'sorry can't afford it, all the money goes on bills'.

From what has been written by the OP, I think this girl really does believe that her Dad is paying maintenance.

If the Mum doesn't make it clear, I think there is every chance that the child may feel some resentment against her Mum.
And, from what has been written so far, I don't think the Mum deserves that.

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

If she has asked 'does dad pay any maintenance', I would say something like 'he has in the past but can't at the moment' and if she wanted to know further she could ask him.

But the girl hasn't asked 'does Dad pay any maintenance'.
She has asked if she can have a clothing allowance from the money her Dad pays.

From the very first post on this thread:

fabforty wrote: »

The oldest child has mentioned maintenance a few times in a way which clearly suggests that she believes it is being paid. E.g. she asked if she can get a clothes allowance out of her maintenance money.

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I personally don't think a twelve-year-old should have a personal clothes allowance anyway, but that is another discussion.

Yes it is - and therefore irrelevant to this thread.

seven-day-weekend

poet123 wrote: »

I agree, but I disagree this is an instance of needing to do that.



Again, with respect SDW that is not at all the same thing. You removed your child from a nasty situation which any good parent would do.

In the case we are discussing the child cannot be removed from the situation without fallout. Either she is allowed to continue to believe that her father pays money over for her when that is untrue, or she is told gently that is not the case and that she should ask him directly if she needs further details. Doing anything else in response to a straight and pointed question is lying by omission or otherwise.

I reluctantly agree. But what a mess . Poor girl.

duchy

I'm astounded that anyone thinks telling the child the truth about where the family's income comes from -in a straightforward and non judgmental way could be considered as damaging. The child is twelve and probably has friends whose parents also live apart where child support is paid -and it hasn't even occurred to them that their parents (especially if Dad's home has a decent standard of living) have a different situation.

There's a world of difference between -" Daddy doesn;t give us any money -I pay for everything" and "Child support is twenty percent of the Dad's earnings but as your Dad doesn't have a job that's 20% of zero so there isn't child support to give you as a clothing allowance" If the child remembers Dad working when he lived at home -then yes it may bring up some questions for Dad -but it's not unusual for that age to start to have questions about life choices their parents have made anyway.

I don't think it is an awful situation ....... Plenty of Dads who do earn won't pay child support-that is an awful one to explain to a child -but in this instance Dad has made a decision he can explain -if he can justify it in his own head hopefully he can explain it to his daughter...or maybe -just maybe it might wake him up to how unfair he is been and the allowance will be forthcoming from his family budget.