Would you tell a child that NRP does not pay for them?

mumps

mummyroysof3 wrote: »

I'm now in my 30s but my parents separated when I was about 9. When I was secondary school age I was aware that my dad payed maintenance as well as us staying with him the majority of the school holidays. I think if my mum led me to believe she was getting money from dad but said I couldn't have any money for clothes I would be annoyed with her. I would rather her have told me the truth either way though.

OP only your friend can know how her child would deal with the information given to her but I think it's about making sure the child is happy and if dad gets some uncomfortable questions asked then that's for him to deal with as he made that decision.

I am sure the mother is providing the child with clothes just not an allowance.

FBaby

When he was a little boy, there was a family member who was verbally abusive to my husband. She was a close family memebr so we had to have contact. She really came out with some horrible, hateful and hurtful stuff.

I can't see any relation between this event and that of the OP's friend. Telling my kids that their father doesn't pay maintenance was in no way verbally abusive. Is that what you are implying?

Where I differ from the majority is that I don't think the girl's relationship with him should be jeopardised because he doesn't - for her sake, not his.

But you can't seem to accept that it doesn't have to lead to a bad relationship with her dad. Why would it systematically do so?

I too think people are taking the attitude that it serves him right if the girl thinks less of him and blow her relationship with her father. They are not thinking of her, only the adults.

It's been explained on a number of cases that this is not the case. I would get no satisfaction at all from my children thinking less of their father. I want them to think for themselves and question things, not believe everything I or their father do and say.

Rant over, hope it all gets sorted and that the girl does not think less of her father.

Do you really believe that children should think their parents are wonderful no matter what? For how long? What about the damage it does to anyone to realise that the person you adolised growing up is actually a selfish person who put their own interest before that of them?

duchy

DUTR wrote: »

Indeed poor girl, and not for the reasons waffled on about in the thread.
Many of you have grown up in a usual family of Dad/Mum siblings perhaps, somebody was probably working perhaps even both parents.
Why I find it odd is that there even needs to be any explanation to any child, clothes allowance pocket money or anything else is a privilage not a right, and sorry it is not to troll but trying to blame the other parent is just the cowards way of avoiding saying NO, you cannot have everything you want all of the time, or even some of the time is not possible.
There can be people from family units where one parent drinks or gambles the majority of the houshold income and still there is nothing left for treats.
Just like many of you here once a child and asking for something perhaps that was expensive, the answer returned was NO, there didn't need to be any explanation from any parent for them to have to justify their answer NO. Does it make you think any less of the parents? NO.
I understand some of you may wish to spoil your children and in the wrong way of spoiling them (all be it slightly spoilt) .
I wonder if the thread is really about wanting to tactfully justfy a negative answer?

No I don't think it is -In fact I'm wondering if you read the same OP that I did.

Clothing allowances for twelve year olds aren't uncommon nowdays -not as a luxury but as a way of teaching budgeting. The child doesn't get extra clothes they simply get to choose for themselves and if they choose to save for one designer label item or blow the allowance in one go at Primark then lessons about budgeting are learned in both cases.

I'm not sure why you think lack of income would be directly attributable to parents drinking -My parents worked hard and neither of them drank but money was often tight but if I wanted something they couldn't afford they always accorded me the courtesy of explaining why I couldn't have it -whether it was "It's not worth the money" or "we simply can't afford it" never just a blanket "NO".

I do believe in financial honesty with children -and I do think children can be damaged if they discover parents have lied to them. This isn't a case of "You can't have it because your Dad is skinflint who refuses to pay for you" it's a case of "You are asking for money from a source that doesn't exist". A twelve year old has the assumption that all absent Dads pay support.....that's the norm with their friends -it wouldn't even occur to them that their Dad doesn't. They may even just accept "Dad doesn't work so doesn't pay support" without question if they have friends with Dads who are unemployed and class Dad as unemployed rather than a SAHD. (Dad might squirm a bit when he realizes this of course especially if sympathetic questions are asked about his lack of job offers and he realizes she regards him as jobless).
WE as adults have very firm ideas about role models and gender from our own upbringing -it doesn't follow our kids will have the same ideas -and it is entirely possible that a twelve year old has no issue with a SAHD by choice as they don't have the same preconceptions that we do.

Person_one

mumps wrote: »

Well that is your right but I don't see that it is unrelated, it is about appropriate information being given to a child not using the excuse that you have to be completely honest, answer every part of every question or you are a liar.

I think that came up due to SDW's posts. A few of us remember on other threads that she so against lying she wouldn't tell a child their artwork was good if it wasn't, or something similar.

The seeming contradiction took us down the 'strict honesty' road. Although I do believe personally that 12 is old enough to deserve an honest answer for most things. If a 12 year old had a tumour I wouldn't announce 'you might die' out of the blue but if they asked if dying was a possibility I would say yes and talk about how that made them feel, answer questions etc.

Pollycat

silvercar wrote: »

If Dad was paying maintenance, it doesn't mean that a 12 year old should assume she can have a clothes allowance. The two don't go together. So whether Dad pays any maintenance or not is not the main point from the child's POV.

This 12 year old clearly thinks she should have a clothing allowance.
It is not for you to say that is right or wrong in this specific instance.
You do not know the family, neither do I.
Maybe the Mum would be happy to give her daughter a clothing allowance if she had more disposable income.

The main point is that the child believes her Dad is paying maintenance and wants a part of that money.
The Dad is not paying any maintenance.
Therefore the Mum cannot give her daughter a clothing allowance from non-existent money.
Why should she lie - which is what you have suggested she does?
Why should she not tell the child the truth?

silvercar

"Your Dad doesn't pay any maintenance" and a direction to talk to him if she wants to know more would be sufficient.

So kid then asks Dad for a clothes allowance. If Dad decides to give some money from the new household budget that is not fair on Mum who should be deciding whether kid gets a clothes allowance and should have first call on any money Dad is providing.

Mojisola

mumps wrote: »

So do you have to answer every question a child asks or you are a liar? I don't think children have an absolute right to a full answer on any question they can think of.

And very few people do think that.

Why do you think that because, in this situation, some of us think the child should be told the truth, we would also advocate being brutally honest in every other case?

mummyroysof3

mumps wrote: »

I am sure the mother is providing the child with clothes just not an allowance.

I'm sure she is providing clothes:rotfl: that's not what I meant. Perhaps she could for now then ignore the maintenance part of the issue and maybe just address the fact that child has asked for essentially pocket money to choose to spend on clothes if she wants. As part of the discussion if child mentions maintaince again the it should be addressed with a simple dad doesn't give me any money lets agree on an allowance or maybe you can ask dad for money if you need something.

silvercar

The main point is that the child believes her Dad is paying maintenance and wants a part of that money.

I disagree, the main point is that the child wants a clothes allowance. There is a secondary point that the child thinks she has some entitlement to the maintenance provided by the Dad. we know there isn't any at the moment, but if there was, it is not for the child to think they have an entitlement to it at the age of 12. Maintenance goes tot he pwc to provide for the child, not to the child.

duchy

I think Mumps is seeing lying to protect a child as a good thing.

Lying to a frightened ill child is one thing -Lying about an everyday situation - with a lie the child may later resent you for is not the same thing at all.