3rd degree, what do I do now? [Considering Appeal]

[Deleted User]

zorber wrote: »

To apply for a graduate job with the civil service you need a degree 2:2 or above, i didnt say once that you cannot work your way up from the bottom I though that was this post was all about, the fact the third degree may not be good enough to get most graduate jobs.

I think brazilianwax has just proved my theory right by stating they have a management role and no degree at all. :rolleyes:

A large and significant proportion of the civil service simply worked there way up. There are people that have gone from age 17 earning 12K a year to age 20 earning 40K a year, all you need to do is spend all your time jumping through the right hoops rather then actually being qualified, professional or capable

I have a first class maths degree (MA) from a top uni. My manager doesnt know his !!!! from his elbow and went to the "school of life", he certainly wouldnt be able to get more then a cleaning job on min wage if he left . Its lucky that the 5% of graduates that work for the civil service are capable of doing the job of the other 95% other wise the country would be stuffed

Need_More_Money_2

Yant1 wrote: »

Its lucky that the 5% of graduates that work for the civil service are capable of doing the job of the other 95% other wise the country would be stuffed

It's lucky that not all graduates are as arrogant as you :rolleyes:

Voyager2002

zorber wrote: »

To apply for a graduate job with the civil service you need a degree 2:2 or above, i didnt say once that you cannot work your way up from the bottom I though that was this post was all about, the fact the third degree may not be good enough to get most graduate jobs.

To apply for 'fast track' you need a good degree. In practice, 'fast track' is extremely selective and recruits people of extraordinary ability who will prove to be high flyers and will develop public policy, run major government departments, etc. The majority of graduates in the civil service join as executive officers: entry at this grade is possible with just 'A' levels, although most EOs do have degrees.

[Deleted User]

Why would you bother with the fast track when you can get promoted quicker by just applying for loads of jobs. They give you a slight weighting on your salary and then keep people at band D for absolutly ages then wack them in loads of jobs for very short periods of time, no body cares about training them as they are there for so little that they up bored and playing cards. On of my friends acually left the scheme so that he could get promoted. Cant get anything right can we

PS im semi joking, i need more money, there are a few people that are actually pretty good at their job "from the school of life" obviously there are a few wastes of space my last job was terrible but ive moved to a much better dept. But you get a fair few in industry though, but they generally had to be a bit thick but have got the right school tie or the right handshake to get promoted.

My main points ignoring all my BS is its very easy to get in with a poor degree in the admin grades and at no point at any level in the civil service will you be deliberatly penalised for your degree level or university (unless of course im interviewing you - LOL!) only kiddin im sure it does go on but they are MEANT to promote you for how good you BS interviews and not what degree you have and there are loads of people without degrees ready to take you on in their dept on promotion if you wear a nice suit and talk the right TLAs.

brazilianwax

studentphil wrote: »

How come employers believe all the rubbish that a third makes people stupid and drunk and useless and will only employ people with 300 UCAS points and a 2.1?

I can't answer such a generalised question. I have never encountered problems in finding work despite not having a degree. Admittedly, I've never applied for a special 'graduate' job - clearly not meeting the criteria for one of those.

But I've always found experience to be more of a benefit than pieces of paper. And it's experience I'm impressed by when recruiting, not degrees.

studentphil

Yant1 wrote: »

Why would you bother with the fast track when you can get promoted quicker by just applying for loads of jobs. They give you a slight weighting on your salary and then keep people at band D for absolutly ages then wack them in loads of jobs for very short periods of time, no body cares about training them as they are there for so little that they up bored and playing cards. On of my friends acually left the scheme so that he could get promoted. Cant get anything right can we

PS im semi joking, i need more money, there are a few people that are actually pretty good at their job "from the school of life" obviously there are a few wastes of space my last job was terrible but ive moved to a much better dept. But you get a fair few in industry though, but they generally had to be a bit thick but have got the right school tie or the right handshake to get promoted.

My main points ignoring all my BS is its very easy to get in with a poor degree in the admin grades and at no point at any level in the civil service will you be deliberatly penalised for your degree level or university (unless of course im interviewing you - LOL!) only kiddin im sure it does go on but they are MEANT to promote you for how good you BS interviews and not what degree you have and there are loads of people without degrees ready to take you on in their dept on promotion if you wear a nice suit and talk the right TLAs.

It is not easy to get a civil sevice job at all. I have not even got an interview for the few I have applied for as so many people want govt jobs it is by far one of the hardest sectors to get a job in.

brazilianwax

Yant1 wrote: »

I think brazilianwax has just proved my theory right by stating they have a management role and no degree at all. :rolleyes:

A large and significant proportion of the civil service simply worked there way up. There are people that have gone from age 17 earning 12K a year to age 20 earning 40K a year, all you need to do is spend all your time jumping through the right hoops rather then actually being qualified, professional or capable

I have a first class maths degree (MA) from a top uni. My manager doesnt know his !!!! from his elbow and went to the "school of life", he certainly wouldnt be able to get more then a cleaning job on min wage if he left . Its lucky that the 5% of graduates that work for the civil service are capable of doing the job of the other 95% other wise the country would be stuffed

That's right. I have 10 years management experience in place of a degree. I am (told that I am) intelligent and have been troubleshooting in the civil service for more than 6 years now. I came in way above EO following rigourous exams that tested exactly how effective I would be. I work damn hard, give a lot to my employers and am committed to both my work and that of the organisation.

I agree that there are people in civil service posts that simpy shouldn't be, and the civil service is getting much better at weeding them out. But that culture isn't completely there yet which is extremely frustrating.

I don't like to put people in boxes, I don't care if you're purple, yellow or green, whether you have letters after your name or not. I make sure that hard work is rewarded in my organisation. If you think that those with degrees do their jobs better than those without, then you don't really know the system at all.

brazilianwax

Voyager2002 wrote: »

To apply for 'fast track' you need a good degree. In practice, 'fast track' is extremely selective and recruits people of extraordinary ability who will prove to be high flyers and will develop public policy, run major government departments, etc. The majority of graduates in the civil service join as executive officers: entry at this grade is possible with just 'A' levels, although most EOs do have degrees.

Fast stream is a completely different kettle of fish, and people already in the service but without a degree can absolutely apply (and do).

brazilianwax

Yant1 wrote: »

PS im semi joking, i need more money, there are a few people that are actually pretty good at their job "from the school of life" obviously there are a few wastes of space my last job was terrible but ive moved to a much better dept. But you get a fair few in industry though, but they generally had to be a bit thick but have got the right school tie or the right handshake to get promoted.

My main points ignoring all my BS is its very easy to get in with a poor degree in the admin grades and at no point at any level in the civil service will you be deliberatly penalised for your degree level or university (unless of course im interviewing you - LOL!) only kiddin im sure it does go on but they are MEANT to promote you for how good you BS interviews and not what degree you have and there are loads of people without degrees ready to take you on in their dept on promotion if you wear a nice suit and talk the right TLAs.

That's pretty offensive. If that is your experience in whichever faceless dept you are in, don't assume it is the same across the whole service.

Did you have this arrogance before you got your goldplated degree, or was it a freebie that came with it?

studentphil

Yant1, if you hate the civil service so much why do you still work there? I accept that everywhere will have people you do not get on with,but you just seem to detest it. If you thought the civil service was bad and you worked there to help improve it and make it better then I could undestand why stay, but at the moment you might be happier if you left.