3rd degree, what do I do now? [Considering Appeal]

dellfanatic

Grrr I'm so angry, I didn't look at my mother's online banking for a week and now she's got two £25 overdraft charges, as if I don't have enough to do at the moment aside from now reclaiming bank charges too :wall: :wall: :wall:

Thanks for that link I'll have a look now... ohh my thanks button is working again

absolutebounder

Cant bothered to read whole thread but Op should stop thinking about what they cant do with their degree and work out what they acn do as many successful people havent even got a degree

BigBouncyBall

well with all due respect, if you had bothered to read the whole thread, thats exactly what OP is now thinking about.

Voyager2002

My response to the original question:

You can do loads of things with a Third. I graduated with a Third and simply did not give my degree class on application forms, but mentioned all the positive reasons why the employer should consider me. I got lots of interviews.

My biggest problem was that I believed (wrongly) that my third was a glaring black mark, and that by "forgetting" to put in on the application form I was being dishonest. So I went into job interviews feeling guilty and expecting to be unmasked. And it was this kind of attitude that prevented me from getting jobs, because I came over in interview as a troubled person.

Many employers actually did not bother to ask abotu degree class. For many positions they are looking for "the right person" and the degree class is not all that significant. I wish I had realised that at the time, instead of waiting anxiously for the "killer question". Those that did ask then asked if there were any special circumstances. There were, but I spent too long explaining them. Employers don't want people with problems (or people who tell long stories about problems). A single sentence to explain away a poor degree class enables them to get on with the serious task of deciding whether this is the right person for the job.

I don't think that an MA/MSc is a good way to "mask" a poor degree class. However, if you have a degree in one subject and want to work in a different area, a conversion course could make sense. That is what I did (eventually). It means more debt, of course. Most universities will accept you, although you will need to produce convincing reasons for wanting to do the course on the application form and at intervew.

However, your Third will never go away. Despite getting a distinction on my MSc, I lost about ten years before I could get funding to do a PhD. And even with a PhD and a number of publications, I have been asked about my first degree grade in job interviews.

christh

Great post, Voyager. I echo your sentiments 100%.

I was in the same boat as yourself and the OP after university, third in tow, although I was fortunate enough in my timing that straight after graduating a position was available at the company I'd worked for over my Summer holidays. There was still at interview process but as I was a 'known quantity' I think that swung things well into my favour. I don't recall if my degree grade was mentioned. But this is beside the point.

After I finished with that job, I had to do my first interviews without that advantage and I really did fret over my third. Almost certainly unduly so, and in fact in one interview I was presented with a panel of interviewers, total nightmare - and that combined with the impending doom of being asked my degree grade - let's just say I didn't manage to give an impression of being calm under pressure! I was later told that I was presented with the panel in the first interview as they were so impressed with my qualifications, but I didn't get the job as I seemed overly nervy.

I let it worry me so much that in one interview I stupidly said I received a 2:2, hoping that they wouldn't ask to see my degree certificate. But of course once I'd received the letter inviting me for a second interview, they asked me to bring my degree cert. Disaster. I strongly recommend NOT trying to shore up your degree, because if your bluff is called, you can kiss that job goodbye.

Now I'm older and a little wiser, I'd not make those same mistakes again. Going into an interview with even the slightest bit of self-doubt is just setting yourself up for failure. You need to believe in yourself. You know you can do the job. Don't let the fact your degree grade isn't brilliant cloud your self-belief.

A third degree or even a pass degree is infinitely better than having no degree at all.

filigree_2

Yant1 wrote: »

Just get in at the bottom and spend time working through the place you soon find out whats good and whats bad.

I agree, that's how I started in the Civil Service as an Admin Assistant. It only demanded two O levels so I was grossly overqualified, but it was better than the dole! I moved around, got a wide range of office experience and training and now I'm in a job where most of my colleagues are graduates.

All of this will be wasted on Phil however, because he won't demean himself by applying for bottom rung jobs.

Savvy_Sue

I don't have time to read the whole thread but you seem to have been given good advice so far: just a question, was your viva to differentiate between a 3rd and a 2:2, or between a 3rd and a fail? If the latter, I'd maybe keep quiet ...

BTW, DH has a 3rd, he knew they wouldn't fail him as he was the only student doing his degree by then, and they wouldn't have wanted him to appeal and repeat the year! Hasn't stopped him having good, responsible jobs since then.

dellfanatic

I got my results today, I've actually done better than I thought. Here are the 12 module marks (%):

56, 47, 23, 33, 22, 64, 64, 64, 62, 40, 50, 49. Mean = 47.83

So, I'm going to make an appeal as I'm well within the relams of a 3rd. I can't believe that together with the extenuating cicrumstances I divulged to my personal tutor that this mark couldn't be pushed to give a 2:2. My research project mark of 64% is a nice boost to my confidence.

Although I did get low marks on three modules, two of those were taught by a lecturer who retured three years ago and was brought out of retirement to teach us because the department didn't bother hiring a replacement for him. That didn't help.

I'm looking through the academic handbook where an appeal is considered:

8.2 Grounds for Appeal

8.2.1 The University shall only consider academic appeals which are based on one or more of the following grounds:

· The Examining Board/Faculty failed to take into account all work submissible and properly submitted for assessment.

· There was evidence of a computational or administrative error in arriving at the end of level/part decision of the Faculty or of the Examining Board.

· Defects or irregularities in the conduct of the examination or in written instructions or in advice relating thereto which are of such a nature as to cause reasonable doubt as to whether the examiners would have reached the same decision had they not occurred.

· The examiners were aware of, but did not fully consider, defects or irregularities in the conduct of the examination or in written instructions or in advice relating thereto, when such defects or irregularities or advice might, in the candidate’s opinion, have had an adverse effect on his/her performance.

· Exceptionally, the presentation of new or additional extenuating circumstances which were not made known to the Examining Board//School/Faculty. Where a candidate could have reported the exceptional circumstances to the Examining Board/School/Faculty prior to its meeting, those circumstances cannot subsequently be cited as grounds for appeal unless there is a compelling reason why these were not disclosed.[1]

· The examiners/School were aware of, but did not fully consider, exceptional personal circumstances reported by the candidate prior to the meeting of the Examining Board/Faculty concerned and which might, in the candidate’s opinion, have had an adverse effect on his/her academic performance

· Evidence of prejudice or of bias or of inadequate assessment, not of an academic nature, on the part of one or more of the examiners.

· Where there is evidence that the supervision provided was inadequate and there were exceptional reasons why this had not been reported by the candidate prior to the decision of the Examining Board. Only in exceptional circumstances will cases citing evidence of inadequate supervision be considered. Normally such cases shall be considered under the complaints procedure.

8.2.2 Appeals which question the academic judgement of the examiners shall not be admissible.

8.2.3 Candidates who have been permitted to progress to the next level/part or year of study, or have been granted supplementary examinations or other form of assessment of a module at the next available opportunity, shall not be permitted to submit an appeal.

8.5.3 The following shall not be considered grounds for appeal:

· Questioning the academic or professional judgement of the examiners.

· A candidate’s disappointment with a result where marks have been accurately recorded, assessment regulations correctly followed and where no evidence of material irregularity exists.

· Where extenuating circumstances were made known to the members of the relevant Examining Board/Faculty and such circumstances were fully considered.

· Where insufficient explanation is presented to account for the reason that evidence of undisclosed extenuating circumstances had not been made known to the Examining Board/Faculty prior to the relevant meeting.

I'm currently looking at my options and so far, I can only appeal on the basis that my extenuating circumstances were not taken account of. Of course they may say that they were, but they decided against taking any remedial action.

Something else I've come across is that my permission should've been sought if my personal circumstances were to be discussed by my tutor with anyone else, including the exam awards board. As no permission was requested, I can only assume that either the student-tutor confidentiality was broken or that the circumstances were not brought to the exam awards meeting.

In case I haven't made it obvious already, I am very very grateful to all your replies so far and it has definitely made me more positive in my outlook on the whole situation. By appealing, I have nothing to lose and by the looks of things, everything to gain. I'd also have to state what I want from the appeal, in my case, a 2:2 degree award. If anyone has advice for me or ideas, I'd be most grateful again!

studentphil

The examiners/School were aware of, but did not fully consider, exceptional personal circumstances reported by the candidate prior to the meeting of the Examining Board/Faculty concerned and which might, in the candidate’s opinion, have had an adverse effect on his/her academic performance


That looks your best bet.

dellfanatic

studentphil wrote: »

The examiners/School were aware of, but did not fully consider, exceptional personal circumstances reported by the candidate prior to the meeting of the Examining Board/Faculty concerned and which might, in the candidate’s opinion, have had an adverse effect on his/her academic performance


That looks your best bet.

I thought so too but didn't say so to see what others thought, I'll start drafting a fax to them. Cheeky beggars dated the letter last Friday only posted yesterday. Appeals allowed 10 days from date of notification letter :rolleyes:

I also found that my 64% for the research project was highest among all the course colleagues I spoke with today. Anyhow, I don't lose anything by requesting an appeal so I may as well go for it. If it doesn't go through I'll still be where I am now. Thanks again