Learning to think like a frugal person

chanie

FMG - well done for giving aldi a try, even if it didn't work out. The quality of aldi in the UK is quite good. I've always said to Mr c, that we should try different branda to see if we like them and if not, we don't have to get then again. Mr c refused to try own brand cereal so I bought some own brand and put it in a branded box. He couldn't tell the difference and had to admit defeat when I told him.

Mizmar - you are doing wonderfully and seem to have identified loads of savings, especially on the dog food. Also, well done on the phone plan, I know how tempting it is to want to upgrade.

Today is my day off and I didn't leave the house, so haven't spent a penny. Normally, I'd do the food shopping and end up buying extras, but I haven't been out for the past two weeks on my day off (yay for credit).

I've found a few baking recipes I want to try (cookies and cupcakes). I've found recipes that only use a few ingredients and I already have most of the ingredients at home anyway. The children can help with the baking, so it's perfect for miserable days like today.

I just had a call from Mr c, saying he had driven past Peter Andres house and spoke to one of his brothers. He only recognised the brother because I watch Peter's tv show. Mr c was once in a queue and Peter was behind him. I told Mr c that he may be accused of being a stalker. Just thought I'd mention it, because FMG is in Oz!

mizmir

Just a heads up for anyone wanting to buy YNAB - it is available at 50% off from Macupdates - https://deals.macupdate.com/ -you have to sign up for an acount but that is free and you get an activation code for $29.99 (about £18.70). I found it on a thread on here which says it works on Windows as well as Mac but you might want to check that.

ForMyGirls

Day 22 marks the beginning of Week 4 of the program (if you are doing a step a day). This week is a focus on identifying and responding to sabotaging thoughts. It starts with a particular focus on the “this is too hard” thoughts that will inevitably arise after one leaves the excited ‘honeymoon’ phase of a new diet (or in this context - new budgeting system).

Because it is the beginning of a new week before starting in on the daily tasks Beck recommends checking in that you have done some of the big picture items form the first two weeks - so before you move on - look at this checklist - if there is anything you haven’t done yet - schedule a time to do it!

1. Do you need to create more time and energy for your frugal living - or is the time you have set aside working OK?
2. Do you need to make any more environmental changes to your workplace or home?
3. Are you consulting your budgeting coach regularly?
4. Have you done the exercise to learn how to tolerate having unspent money in your ‘pocket’ - that is committing to not spending any discretionary money for a week?
5. Have you done the exercise designed to learn how to not overspend (that is - the “put things in your basket that you have to take out so you only buy what you planned to - see Day 17)
6. Have you been managing to get right back on track on the days you haven’t followed your food plan?

Having thought about those (and scheduled time to address any you haven’t completed yet) - we can get into Day 22.

Today I am going to quote a big chunk of Beck’s book because there is a part of Day 22 that she explains so eloquently and powerfully I don’t think I could possibly do it justice with a paraphrase!

Oh well is about coping with disappointment - the feelings you have when you see something that you really want but you can’t buy it - or when friends are doing something and you can’t afford to join in. This disappointment will often play out as resentment - or even rebelliousness - “why do I have to do all this stuff? There must be an easier way” or (my personal favourite) “I’m not going to - you can’t make me!” When this happens you need to remind yourself that you have freely chosen to be on a budget and now you have another choice - you can use all your energy feeling sorry for yourself or you can just accept that there are disadvantages to being on a budget which are a necessary means to an end.

In the Beck Diet Solution Beck goes on to say:

“In 1994, I learned an important lesson about acceptance. That was the year my youngest child was put on an extremely strict diet to control epilepsy. It was a mainstream treatment, called the ketogenic diet, prescribed by his doctor. Thank goodness, it worked! For almost six years (most kids are on it for only two to three years), my son ate three meals a day and no snacks. Each meal consisted mainly of fat - heavy cream and mayonnaise, oil or butter - with just a small amount of protein and an even smaller amount of carbohydrates. You can imagine why he’s my hero. For almost six years, he did not have one bite of candy, cookies, ice cream, or any other treat that contained sugar. He never ate a whole piece of fruit, a whole piece of bread, or more than a couple of chips at a time. He never ate seconds or ate between meals. Not once.

How did we get him to comply with this diet? We used what I call the “Oh well” technique. Whenever he wanted to eat something he couldn’t, he’d get a star on a chart if he just said “Oh well”. “Oh well” means “I don’t like this but I’m going to accept it and move on”.

Within a couple of days, be began to struggle less. Within a week or two, he completely changed his mindset. He knew for certain that there were whole categories of food he couldn’t have at all, but he accepted what he had to do and settled down.”

In the diet context Beck points out that the change of mindset probably won’t happen as fast for most dieters as it did for her son - but it will happen if you keep using Oh Well".

I love “Oh Well”. It is so simple - but so powerful. In fact there have been lots of times in my posts in this thread that I have wanted to use “oh well” but I figured I needed to explain it first.

So next time you’re feeling deprived because there is something you aren’t buying say “Oh well” and see whether the load feels just a little bit lighter as a result:-)

Day 22 checklist:
1. Read my ARC, NO CHOICE, IT’S NOT OKAY and GET BACK ON TRACK cards?
2. Read my other response cards as needed?
3. Used my strategy for avoiding impulsive spending and savouring the fruits of my expenditure? (All the time, most of the time, some of the time, none of the time)
4. Gave myself credit when I engaged in helpful spending behaviours (all the time? Most of the time? Some of the time? Not at all?)
5. Used my 'spending wisely' strategies?
6. Wrote out a spending plan for tomorrow?
7. Monitored everything I spent today?
8. Compared my bank balance to my YNAB categories to redefine "zero" money available for discretionary spending?
9. I only used available money for discretionary spending?
10. I said “Oh well” when there was something I wanted that I couldn’t have?

ForMyGirls

Hello coaches,

Credits:
- Spent a long time in the shops with my kids so that my older DD could buy the toy she has been umming and ahhing about (she is the antithesis of an impulse spender - makes her excruciating to shop with but I figure it is to be encouraged!) and I bought NOTHING. Even made the kids wait till we got home for a drink (note for next time is to take water with me!)
- Younger DD wanted to buy an item that was $2 more than she had left of her gift and pocket money. In the past I would have just added it rather than deal with her disappointment but today I didn't because a) it wasn't in my spending plan and b) given she is an impulsive over spender like me I figured it would be better to help her deal with her disappointment than indulge her.

My checklist (in brief)
1. ARC, NO CHOICE, IT'S NOT OKAY and GET BACK ON TRACK cards - yes 2. other response cards - yes 3. transactions in YNAB before spending and savoured purchases - n/a 4. Credits - all of the time 5. use my spend wisely plan - n/a 6. spending plan - yes 7. Monitored my spending - all of the time 8. compared my bank balance and YNAB to redefine "zero" - n/a 9. Spent only available money for discretionary spending - yes

Mizmir - I am hugely impressed by the iPhone upgrade dodge. About a month before my lightbulb moment I dropped my iPhone and completely shattered the screen - the thoughts that went through my head were "Oh !!! I've broken it" and, almost immediately "Oh awesome now I will get to upgrade!" Like you I use mine all the time - including for lots of work related stuff and the old one (a 4) was really struggling to cope with the number of things I was asking it to do. Have to confess I am glad it didn't happen after my LBM because I don't know how I would cope without one. (Needless to say it is now in a really solid case!)

Chanie - yay to you for finding entertainment for your kids that also creates food for your household from ingredients you mostly already have. Talk about many birds with one stone! Do they both bake with you or just the older one? I love cooking with my kids but it is only just getting to the point that I can cope with them both helping at the same time :-) What an impressive celebrity finder your DH is!

chanie

I've just spent a bit of time reading over the most of this thread to keep myself on track (although I don't feel I'm off track at the moment). I realised I'd missed step 10!!!

step 10 - setting a realistic goal
I'm not going to set myself a goal at the moment, other than to manage the budget I have. I will review in a few months, but I really want to get the plan ingrained in my mind first.

step 12 - tolerating not spending
I have some good habits going on:
Left over play money goes into my money tin and I have spent any in ages.
Haven't spent any money on my day off for the past two weeks (other than food shopping).
I've decided to take a proactive approach with this one and use my revived hobbies as a way to recreate the spending buzz. I plan on knitting, baking and gardening. I have a few projects I'm working on, which I'm really excited about, so watch this space.

step 13 - overcoming the urge to compulsive spend
I will use my PAUSE PLAN PAY for this. Writing down things I want/need has helped me psychologically as it gives my something to work towards. However, a few of the things I've put on the list, are now crossed off as unwanted or unneeded, so the plan has taught me how fickle I can be and the value in pausing and planning.

I've been thinking about my spending habits over the years. I've always worked and was happy to do so even throughout uni whilst all ny friends were out drinking. As a result, I've always had money and never really had to watch what I spend until now. I think the reason why some of the steps don't always feel relevant is because give or take, I've normally spent within my means. However, my disposable income has decreases loads over the last few years, due to getting a mortgage, having children and pay freezes at work.

My debts are manageable and aren't huge, but I want to get them down. I guess my ARC sums it up 'I WILL MANAGE MY MONEY, NOT MY MONEY MANAGING ME'. I think between my ARC and my PAUSE PLAN PAY, I have covered a lot of the steps. In saying that though, I will continue with the steps so keep myself on track and make sure I don't miss anything.

STEP 22 has struck a cord with me at the moment, so I may start to think about this now. Recently, I've heard of loads of bad and things happening to people I know - relationships breaking down, loosing their jobs and horrible degenerative illnesses. This made me think that these things could happen to any one of us and when you think about it, the handbag I'm craving is meaningless - I mean, it's not like you can take it with you, when you die!!!

Moving onto more positives, FMG, well done for not giving in to your daughter. I really want to teach my children to be financially savvy. My niece and nephew are the total opposites. Recently, my nephew had over £100 in his money mix which went into his savings whilst his sister (the spender) had about £20. My nephew said in a matter-of-fact way 'there wasn't anything I wanted'. Out of the mouth of babes, but so relevant.

chanie

I've realised I may have contradicted myself in my previous post.

Whilst I do generally spend within my means, I've never been a saver. I do have my money tin, but it's really pin money. The change I need to make is being able to build up 'proper' savings and not spend what I have, just because it's there.

The problem I have with this at the moment is that our outgoings are so high, there isn't much to spare and there Is always something that's needed. I mentioned my strategy in a previous post was to write down everything we need and cross it off as we need it, which has been really useful.

FMG - in response to your baking question, I haven't done any baking with the children yet. I plan on measuring out and preparing all of the ingredients in advance. Then, we can all sit the kitchen floor together to do the mixing. My daughter is 18 months - she doesn't like to be excluded, despite not knowing what she's being excluded from, so as long as she can see what's going on, she's happy. Maybe you could sit at a table with your children?

ForMyGirls

Hello coaches,

Credits for my day:
- overcame the temptation of that darn set of measuring spoons at the supermarket again. It is such an eye-opener to realise the things that I waste my money on. The debate that plays out in my head is that the job of making bread each night will somehow be magically transformed if I have a brand new set of measuring spoons. I try to convince myself that the bread will be better in some indefinable way if I can exactly measure a quarter of a teaspoon - rather than just filling about 1/4 of the spoon I use to stir my tea :-) "No Choice" got me through because one of my rules is "buy only what is on the shopping list unless it is a staple" so I just had no option but to leave them in the shop.
- although I didn't go to the bargain shop I did price-check on everything where brand doesn't matter

My checklist (in brief)
1. ARC, NO CHOICE, IT'S NOT OKAY and GET BACK ON TRACK cards - yes 2. other response cards - yes 3. transactions in YNAB before spending and savoured purchases - yes 4. Credits - all of the time 5. use my spend wisely plan - yes 6. spending plan - yes 7. Monitored my spending - all of the time 8. compared my bank balance and YNAB to redefine "zero" - yes 9. Spent only available money for discretionary spending - yes

Chanie - thanks for sharing your thinking about the differences between being an over spender and a 'non-saver'. I was reading another diary the other day - someone who is almost at the end of a long journey of debt-busting and anticipating the beautiful land of "debt free life". It got me thinking about the fact that, a bit like planning for weight maintenance at the end of a weightless journey it is also going to be important to plan for money management once I have paid off my debt. It is not that I need to be thinking that through now - but I think it is never too early to be planting in my head the idea that at the end of my debt-busting I want to be a saver - and that so many of the habits and strategies that I am developing now will enable that to happen - provided I recognise that I need to keep using them!

Thanks for the baking tip - I do sometimes cook in the kitchen with them together - I just find it easier to just cook with one at a time as negotiating whose turn it is to do things on top of making sure hands are safe from knives and stovetops can get a bit stressful! Last night my younger DD cooked carbonara with me - I haven't made it in years and realised when we were eating it that one of my favourite photos is of her cooking it with me when she was 2! Different kind of helping then though! Hope your baking is a success - I think the secret is to be relaxed about proportions because not all of each ingredient will be staying in the bowl.

My posts are likely to be a bit shorter this week - and I may not get to post an overview of anymore days this week. I am back to work tomorrow after a month of leave so will be adjusting to juggling lots of balls in the air again. And I also have some stressful personal stuff to deal with this week. My plan to handle it is to stick to my spending plan (and eating plan) and to post here (and to my diet buddies) every night but to be relaxed if other parts of the program slide a bit this week (e.g.: doing my 'redefining zero' exercise or reading a chapter of the book each day.) I will try to stick to those things but if at the end of each day I need to collapse in a heap then a heap it will be. I have also lined up time with loved ones to 'debrief' during the week so hopefully I'll keep my head above water. In a way I see it as a week in which I won't move forwards in the development of my frugal living skills - but I won't fall backwards either.

mizmir

FMG - sounds like a sensible plan. You need to adjust any plan to account for circumstances. I always think the key is to be deliberate in that adjustment (as you are). That way you remain in control. It is only when you allow the circumstances to overwhelm the plan that you get the negative thoughts that tell you it hasn't worked.

So today it is sabotaging thoughts for me. This is an interesting one.

A biggy is "You can't keep this up". I don't (yet) have the added "so what's the point?" but I do have the concern at the back of my mind. Living hand to mouth and managing every penny is doable (even fun if you like a challenge!) for the short term. But can we do it for 4 years? My answer at the moment is "You have no choice" - we are on a last chance here. We have failed to deal with our debts for years because we strictly didn't have to - we could afford to service them and were not missing payments. We have still not missed any payments but it is MUCH tighter. And if we continue living as we have been then we will be unable to sustain it. So that is the how I am addressing this now. And how I am keeping OH on board.

A second one is "You need this" - I have managed this one quite successfully recently over the iPhone upgrade. I am asking the question over several times before I buy anything. I am also thinking carefully about what I mean by "need". I am not prepared to interpret that as "literally would die without" - I admire those who can do this but I know we can't. And I am more interested in developing a sustainable frugal lifestyle than in cutting everything to the absolute bone. So "need" for me includes consideration of:
1. Will it help solve a real problem that we have right now that we need to solve?
2. Will it save significant time/energy that we could then use for other things?
3. Is there anything else that we already have that would do the job adequately without sacrificing 1 & 2 significantly?

If the answers are Yes, Yes, No then we need it - and then I can ask the fourth question:
4. Can I find the money in the budget?

chanie

FMG - hope this week goes well for you. Remember, we are all here if you need us. Don't worry about updating the plan as we all have enough to be getting on with. When I diet, I always think a stay the same weight week should be seen positively, so if this week is stressful, aim to keep with the plan even if you don't pay off any debts.

Mizmar - I'm totally on your wavelength with the plan. I too want a sustainable frugal life style, with the flexibility I need. I love your new questions (you are the amazing with the types of questions you come up with, so much better than mine). Question 2 (saving time and energy for other things) has really struck a cord with me. The saying 'time is money' is really relevant to me and I do sometimes have to 'buy' convenience.

A big positive for many of us is that February is a short month!!!!

ForMyGirls

Hello coaches,

Thanks for the well wishes Mizmar and Chanie. I survived today OK. A bit knackered for it but intact and no money was spent :-) i had a "maybe" trip to the shops planned to buy the gift i have been wanting to get for a while for my partner but decided that going today would be a bit too like retail therapy so i didn't go. I was also dissuaded by it being hellish hot today so i don't really want to have to go out if i didn't have to. Tomorrow is forecast for a cool change - and the stress levels will be down tomorrow so i think i will duck out and get it tomorrow. He has been such a support for so long on this issue that it would be lovely to surprise him tomorrow. It is nice to know it is something i have budgeted and planned for and is not an impulse or irresponsible purchase.

My checklist (in brief)
1. ARC, NO CHOICE, IT'S NOT OKAY and GET BACK ON TRACK cards - yes 2. other response cards - yes 3. transactions in YNAB before spending and savoured purchases - n/a 4. Credits - none of the time 5. use my spend wisely plan - n/a 6. spending plan - yes 7. Monitored my spending - n/a 8. compared my bank balance and YNAB to redefine "zero" - n/a 9. Spent only available money for discretionary spending - yes

Mizmir and Chanie - i think sustainable frugal lifestyle is totally the way to go for me too! One of my diet friends introduced me to this phrase "white knuckling". I think she picked it up from AA - essentially the goal in any life changing program - whether it is staying sober, losing weight, or living within your means - is to get beyond the point where you are white-knuckling it and instead be just living with your new habit.

I have found in my weightloss journey that the white knuckling comes and goes. There was a long time where i was pretty much all the time but now most of the time eating right and exercising is just what i do and every now and then i have a day where it is hard.

I am finding that living within my means it is a bit similar - staying on track money wise is taking less and less of my mental energy each day and i am feeling more and more confident each day that this is all doable. I hope that it gets easier for both of you too.