Family and housing help needed

Laney2

Halle71 wrote: »

Ie. start again?

You say your relationship with your dad isn't great? Presumably he appreciates what you have done for him AT HIS REQUEST. My first course of action would be to sit down and explain the consequences of what you (suspect) he has done as outlined in some of the scenarios above. I would then outline what I thought was fair and here is what I personally would want (written in layman's terms).

By the way, I know it has been mentioned that it is very distasteful counting out an old man's money before he is dead, but I also think he has caused a lot of this and is already thinking about how his money is distributed.

I would want to come out with the following:
1. What I have invested minus fair rent.
2. Any appreciation that would have occurred on the property I had been asked to sell.
3. Half of any inheritance remaining, should there be any left after care home fees etc.

I have no idea how this would be done legally but a solicitor would be able to help.

As other posters have said, I would now be very worried that my brother's inheritance is protected but there is not even a guarantee that the money I have put in/lost as a result of helping my father is protected, let alone any inheritance. If anything the father should have gifted half the house to the OP to protect her investment.

My points exactly-this should not even be an issue till it was needed to be! If he hadn't given half his house away to my brother (and he said this was done to protect us from inheritance tax or something) this would not be a problem. I would have just been living with my dad, ensuring he was looked after, after his death I would have thought my brother and myself would have 50/50 which would have been fine by me.Now it is just a cash cow for my brother. He believes that as he owns half my dad's house, then he should be benefitting from me living in it! Even though he has done nothing to help with care of our dad. My dad is now in total agreement with my brother.

Laney2

pinkshoes wrote: »

Find out how much it will cost for a full time carer and tell your brother he will have to pay this if you move out.

A full time carer would be around £500 per week . My brother says he does not need one.

Laney2

ihatemyhouse wrote: »

how has he gifted the house to him, if he has gifted half of it, is your brothers and your name on deeds, or is it just still your dads name,

Gifted half to my brother;they are both on deeds. My dad knew this BEFORE he asked me to move in.

Laney2

Halle71 wrote: »

Ie. start again?

You say your relationship with your dad isn't great? Presumably he appreciates what you have done for him AT HIS REQUEST. My first course of action would be to sit down and explain the consequences of what you (suspect) he has done as outlined in some of the scenarios above. I would then outline what I thought was fair and here is what I personally would want (written in layman's terms).

By the way, I know it has been mentioned that it is very distasteful counting out an old man's money before he is dead, but I also think he has caused a lot of this and is already thinking about how his money is distributed.

I would want to come out with the following:
1. What I have invested minus fair rent.
2. Any appreciation that would have occurred on the property I had been asked to sell.
3. Half of any inheritance remaining, should there be any left after care home fees etc.

I have no idea how this would be done legally but a solicitor would be able to help.

As other posters have said, I would now be very worried that my brother's inheritance is protected but there is not even a guarantee that the money I have put in/lost as a result of helping my father is protected, let alone any inheritance. If anything the father should have gifted half the house to the OP to protect her investment.

My dad does not appreciate anything I have done. It is expected because I am a woman! All he is fixated on is that my brother must be looked after as he has 2 children which is a financial expense. He wanted me to buy my brothers half from
my brother-1/why should he have his Inheritance before it was guarenteed,2/ why should he be given it yet I would have had to buy it, 3/I could buy my brothers half from him and find at a later date my dad leaves the remaing half back to my brother :-/

Laney2

C_Mababejive wrote: »

She has no security of tenure.

My brother wants me to move out. Unfortunately I played into his hands. I felt cheated on investing all the money I had, into a house that I thought would have just been split between my brother and myself after my dad's death. After finding out it was already legally owned by my dad and my brother I was of course quite upset. My brother says nothing I have spent has added value to the house! I felt and still feel that I have been duped. My brother lives an hour away and does not see my dad more than once a month when he gets money from him. It has turned into an argument my brother does not speak to me now, my dad is totally in agreement with my brother. I'm in the wrong.

Laney2

Kynthia wrote: »

I think only one has suggested that. The OP is possibly now living in a house that is jointly owned by the dad and the brother. This wouldn't be a problem if they had not of invested their own money in it. So now this money is at risk, staying there long term is uncertain so the roof over their head is at risk, and although the other half of the property is being left to them in the will it is far from certain they will ever receive it for more than one reason.

I would suggest checking the property ownership as others have said then maybe getting legal advice about their investment, security of tenure, can the brother charge rent. and what happens if the father needs to go into care.

Thankyou, you made such a great point. If I had not spent the profit of my own house,on my dad's house I would not hesitate to leave.it is my money spent on it that I'm gutted about. My dad says I have no legal standing to anything I have spent, if I fight my brother about this he said he will change the will and leave it all to my brother. This is why relationships have broken down now making me look bad as there was constant arguing.

moneyistooshorttomention

Laney2 wrote: »

My dad wanted me to 'buy my brothers half' At the time I did not feel this was fair! Why should my brother be given half a house for nothing, before it was needed (ie after death of person and at request by a will? It was only after I was running his house he let slip he was paying my brother 'rent of £200 for living in my brothers share' :-0

I wondered why on earth your father was paying your brother rent to live in his own home. So your brother has convinced your father that the "gift" of half the house applied immediately. Mygawd...so your brother wanted some benefit from his "inheritance" before your father even died!:eek: Your brother beats all belief and appears to have your father wound round his little finger.

Hence, I guess, why your father is expecting you to pay most of his bills for him...his way of finding the money to pay your grasping brother "rent" to live in his own home:shocked:

Laney2

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Do hope this situation works out okay for you OP.

It obviously wouldn't be right to even think in terms of paying rent to live in your fathers place, because you owned your own house and sold it to suit him. If you had been in rented accommodation anyway prior to moving in, then you would be saving money on rent. Because you were in your own home...then that doesn't apply (ie as no rent money is being saved by you).

Your father has played a very crafty trick on you basically. It sounds a lot like he was just after an unpaid live-in carer and chose you out of his two children (based probably partly on outdated assumptions of its a womans job to be a carer and not a mans...hence part of why he chose you, rather than his male child).

He then proceeded to let you spend your own money on the house, knowing very well that you would be increasing the value of the house and should therefore have more than half left to you just from that fact alone.

I would say you should inherit the whole house come the time, courtesy of the fact that you will have been unpaid carer for some years (and your brother let off the hook totally) AND having invested money in the house.

Clearly neither your father nor your brother are seeing this in a fair light. I don't know what age you are...but maybe your father has a few other sexist assumptions (along the lines of "when I die she can always get married to someone and he will help support and house her"). Even if you are still relatively young...that is an assumption that it is not his place to make. No-one should feel forced into getting married just in order to support themselves financially. That is a very outdated outlook as to how womens lives should be.

Then comes the "Suppose he has to go into a home anyway" factor and you'd be really up the swanee as the Government grabs for the equity tied up in the house and blow you....

Does your father not realise the Care Home factor or has he got you lined-up to care for him regardless of just how ill he gets?

In your position I'd be off to see a solicitor for an hour's chat in the New Year and take with you any proof you have of what you spent on your fathers house. Best to get a legal bods brain working on this, to see if there is a way to protect your interests. I would also keep a diary of how much care you think you are giving the Selfish Old Man you landed up with for a father in an average week.

What can I say? I do feel for you for being between the Rock of a Shortsighted (at the least) Old Man Father and a Selfish Brother.

Take care.

EDIT: the one possible redeeming factor you might have is if you are 60 or over. I think possibly you might have a bit of leverage to have the local Council rehouse you when Selfish Father dies, as otherwise you might be threatening to barricade yourself into your (ie fathers) house, rather than let them grab it for care home fee purposes.

I'm 43 my brother is 3 years older. My brother and me got on great till I found out he had been given half the house, it got even worse when I found out he was also taking £200 a month for the privilege. Neither my dad or my brother see the problem.

charlie3090

I cant offer any advice on the legal side but money aside you need to
do what is best for you and your son,
you could spend years running around after your dad who clearly does
not appreciate anything you have done or are doing for him.
Would you be able to afford to move out and rent anywhere?,
sadly you could find that eventually you would not be able to stay in
the house anyway,your dad could change his will and cut you out,
there are so many different scenarios that could happen.
What I dont understand is why your dad is paying your brother rent
and not giving you a penny for all the assistance you provide for him,
does he get any benefits?.
Please op,try and look at whats best for you long term,not what is convenient for your selfish relatives,
C x

moneyistooshorttomention

It might be as well to ask the solicitor (if you see one) what benefit there could have been in it for your brother as regards avoiding inheritance tax in the circumstances.

I cant see that the house is going to be worth that much that inheritance tax would apply? I may be wrong and its a rather expensive house...but I'm visualising an ordinary family home here?

More likely your brother was concerned in case your father had to go into a care home at some point and he wanted to make sure that half the house equity couldn't be touched to pay for care home fees. I think, from memory, that any of the house that had been given to someone else 7 or fewer years before someone goes into a care home can't be touched by the local Council when they go to grab house equity. At least, as I understand it, that's the normal position. However, if your father DID end up going into a care home at any point then I think there is an outside chance the Council may be able to go after the rest of the house equity too (ie your brothers "half share") if they are convinced enough that this arrangement was made deliberately to prevent them getting at (some) of the house equity that way.

I still advise seeing a solicitor, then at least you will know exactly where you stand.

I'd take your solicitors advise on this.

If the worst comes to the worst and your solicitor tells you there is no way to retrieve the money you spent on the house then you might have to "cut your losses" and move out and leave your father and brother to stew. Serve your brother right if he finds he has to start thinking in terms of how to replace the free "caring" you are presently doing for your father. It doesn't sound like either of them appreciate it one little bit to me.

Sorry to sound "harsh"...but it does look as if your brother has played your father something rotten (and taken advantage of his old-fashioned views about the role of women as unpaid carers) and it may not be possible to change the minds of either of them.

Do hope you manage to get your money back and everything works out well for you.