Would you risk a neg for not responding?

iammumtoone

fozzeh wrote: »

Exactly. Should have listed separately. But didn’t. So left 25% of the bundle incorrectly described. If it was 2 from 20 and it was FIFA 09 and PES 2010…I wouldn’t be bothered…but they were two of the main four (in my view) anyway!

2 out of 20 is 10% so in that case I have to agree with the seller in how it was listed, they should have said which of the games were missing the cases though, but if they didn't buyer should have asked if it was a concern to them.

fozzeh

Flyonthewall wrote: »

The description did state no case though and most of us assume that means no inlay or manual. And if it were a bundle and other games did have manuals then the condition fitted for them. You should go by the worse game but even so.

Then buy a better printer if it's that bad. You can always print it on better quality paper or glossy/photo paper.

If it's a gift and you cannot resell it anyway with the printed inlay then so long as it's to a decent quality I don't see that it matters anyway, although as a gift I'd always spend a bit more to get one that's as it should be.

I like my games to be in the best condition possible and complete but I always make sure I know what I'm bidding on and never assume. In this case stock photo and no case would be one avoided for me.

Yeah but if you keep buying in bulk/bundles for one or two games with a plan to resell the rest you are basically a business. You are buying to resell regardless of whether you keep some.

Not all sellers will see it that way though, however nice you're being. Plus being in text it's not always easy to tell how people mean things...course, there are always those who just don't care how nice you're clearly being.

Why buy a printer at a hundred quid for that sake? If it was at a level where the overall cost of an item was greater than the outlay for the print and the value of the item…then yes. If not…I’d state it has no inlay

That’s why I said ‘My ‘modus tollens’ defeats your ‘common sense’.

To say you will not be getting P does not consequently mean Q is also not included would be an assumption. And we all know the phrase about assuming. The listing stated no P, didn’t say no Q. But for this, the vice versa of that if Q isn’t included, the P wouldn’t be either (so if they said no inlay, would you expect a case?) creates a caveat emptor to which then the eBay listing guidelines have not been followed, seller in the wrong regardless and there lies my protection in the case.

Switch it around; if it said ‘no inlay’ (and that only), would you still expect a case? You can’t answer the opposite of above as you’re then falling foul of you own ‘common sense’. Both are equal parts to the equation…well, they are to me as I like to look after my games.

As for the business selling, when it’s done at minor levels for personal use and not a source of income, it’s not…read up on that when doing the tax return last year.

theonlywayisup wrote: »

We can't all know everything….

Somewhat patronising considering the point above.

Sometimes people do need patronising to realise what they’ve done wrong. Whether I am being patronising to them (which I haven’t been…much), I’m still letting them know what the rules are on eBay. I’d rather be told something I didn’t know than find out I was wrong and did nothing about it. I’d call that learning.

iammumtoone wrote: »

2 out of 20 is 10% so in that case I have to agree with the seller in how it was listed, they should have said which of the games were missing the cases though, but if they didn't buyer should have asked if it was a concern to them.

25% is in this case (so 2 from 8). 2 from 20 is 10% correct so the quantifiable differernce would be 60% in that equation (difference from 25 to 10).

Also, why should a buyer have to ask if it is included? Listing and description covers me to include manuals. The listing is a sellers responsibility and would fall foul of the SoGA. More by chance I asked and got the answer, tried to save the hassle of getting the items and sending them back.

theonlywayisup

fozzeh wrote: »

Also, why should a buyer have to ask if it is included? Listing and description covers me to include manuals. The listing is a sellers responsibility and would fall foul of the SoGA. More by chance I asked and got the answer, tried to save the hassle of getting the items and sending them back.

You have a lot to learn. So much in that paragraph is incorrect.

sequence

fozzeh wrote: »

Also, why should a buyer have to ask if it is included? Listing and description covers me to include manuals. The listing is a sellers responsibility and would fall foul of the SoGA. More by chance I asked and got the answer, tried to save the hassle of getting the items and sending them back.

If it isn't listed in the description, it isn't included! The seller said no case, any ordinary person would consider that to be disc only. Where's the listing so we can see for ourselves?

fozzeh

theonlywayisup wrote: »

You have a lot to learn. So much in that paragraph is incorrect.

Enlighten me then (apart from missing the ' from sellers)

Enlighten me.

Firstly, per eBay, it isn’t Good. It would be Acceptable.

SoGA - I would think 14.2B covers the state and condition of an item should be accurate, namely (b) appearance and finish and (c) freedom from minor defects. Just because it's eBay doesn't mean it doesn't apply.

sequence

Show us the listing where it says covers/manuals included ?

fozzeh

sequence wrote: »

If it isn't listed in the description, it isn't included! The seller said no case, any ordinary person would consider that to be disc only. Where's the listing so we can see for ourselves?

If it says no case, only the case is missing. It didn't say disc only. There is no buyers caveat emptor. Covered that bit already

Flyonthewall

fozzeh wrote: »

Why buy a printer at a hundred quid for that sake? If it was at a level where the overall cost of an item was greater than the outlay for the print and the value of the item…then yes. If not…I’d state it has no inlay

If it's that bad then you need a better printer for anything you print, not just for printing them. You don't need to spend £100 on a printer either. My printer cost nowhere near that and would be fine just for printing an inlay for a game to give as a gift. It doesn't need to be top quality.

You'd do better stating it is a disk only rather than what it doesn't include because people see the words case and inlay and assume it has them rather than reading it fully and seeing it says it doesn't include them.

To say you will not be getting P does not consequently mean Q is also not included would be an assumption. And we all know the phrase about assuming. The listing stated no P, didn’t say no Q. But for this, the vice versa of that if Q isn’t included, the P wouldn’t be either (so if they said no inlay, would you expect a case?) creates a caveat emptor to which then the eBay listing guidelines have not been followed, seller in the wrong regardless and there lies my protection in the case.

Switch it around; if it said ‘no inlay’ (and that only), would you still expect a case? You can’t answer the opposite of above as you’re then falling foul of you own ‘common sense’. Both are equal parts to the equation…well, they are to me as I like to look after my games.

As the inlay is in the case if you've taken the disk out to play and lost the case it's quite obvious you'd lose the inlay (and possibly the manual) with it because you won't have taken the inlay out, why would you?

If it said no inlay I would not assume it came with a case. However, logically it would make sense for it to include the case as an inlay can fall out or be taken out for various reasons and the disk would still remain in the case. It seems odd that you'd take both out the case and not keep the disk with at least one of them. Still, people do odd things which is why I wouldn't assume.

As for the business selling, when it’s done at minor levels for personal use and not a source of income, it’s not…read up on that when doing the tax return last year.

Buying to resell is a business. End of. Doesn't matter if you don't do it often, only do it with a few items or whatever else, you are buying items to resell and that is a source of income and should be declared.

If you're playing all the games first then it's different because you're not just buying and selling them straight on.

Sometimes people do need patronising to realise what they’ve done wrong. Whether I am being patronising to them (which I haven’t been…much), I’m still letting them know what the rules are on eBay. I’d rather be told something I didn’t know than find out I was wrong and did nothing about it. I’d call that learning.

Maybe that seller didn't need that or maybe they just don't like being told how to do things. It's not your place to teach them how to sell. They'll learn their mistakes from your actions (e.g. feedback), what ebay do and all the fees they get from it.

Also, why should a buyer have to ask if it is included? Listing and description covers me to include manuals. The listing is a sellers responsibility and would fall foul of the SoGA. More by chance I asked and got the answer, tried to save the hassle of getting the items and sending them back.

Because assuming and common sense doesn't work with ebay, you need to make sure what you're getting if it doesn't state it clearly.

Sometimes including certain things is as bad as not including them.

I once sold a PS steering wheel. I barely used it, bought it new and it did not come with pedals. Now, most do but not all. However, as it didn't come with pedals I did not state pedals anywhere in the listing, nor did the photo show any pedals. Listing was clear about what it was and its features. Yet the buyer contacted me after receiving it asking where the pedals were.

Had I stated no pedals you can guarantee that someone would see the word pedals and assume it came with them or that it was missing them and wouldn't work without, which obviously wouldn't be the case.

I know that's somewhat different to this situation but the point is the buyer assumed and the assumed wrong. Common sense would have told them there were no pedals.

Not all games come with manuals now. What should they be listed as? They're complete, disk may be in excellent condition but condition states it should have a manual if better than acceptable. No doubt there have been people who've complained about not getting a manual with them games because they've assumed the games have one when they don't. Similar thing for promo games.

lovinituk

fozzeh wrote: »

Enlighten me then (apart from missing the ' from sellers)

Enlighten me.

Firstly, per eBay, it isn’t Good. It would be Acceptable.

SoGA - I would think 14.2B covers the state and condition of an item should be accurate, namely (b) appearance and finish and (c) freedom from minor defects. Just because it's eBay doesn't mean it doesn't apply.

If its a private sale you have very little rights under SOGA. You would only be covered if the goods are not 'as described'. It didn't say manual was included so it wasn't misdescribed.

lovinituk

fozzeh wrote: »

As for the business selling, when it’s done at minor levels for personal use and not a source of income, it’s not…read up on that when doing the tax return last year.

If buying something with the intention to sell it for profit then its a business, no matter how small a level.