HMRC cheque "stolen" by whom?

jem16

ceiberman wrote: »

Just a thought, but at this stage isn't it possible that the problem is at the banks end and not HMRC? All that's really known so far is the payable order has been cashed but not reached the intended account.

Yes it's possible. What we do know so far is that the cheque has not been paid into any of my daughter-in-law's bank accounts with that bank. That has been checked and double checked.

We also know, that at this stage, HMRC are not saying it's not their problem and tough. We have asked them to investigate.

However should they come back and say it's not their problem, it will be taken further as HMRC has not settled its debt with my daughter-in-law. It is up to HMRC to deal with its bank as to why someone has fraudulently cashed one of their cheques.

As to HMRC saying we have proof of posting the cheque and it's deemed to have arrived 2 days later, that is rebuttable and I doubt would stand up in court.

From The Interpretation Act 1978.

References to service by post.

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

I doubt even HMRC can come up with an Act which requires them to send a refund cheque by post.

I do, however, worry that some people feel that HMRC as the debtor in this case, would feel that they have correctly settled their debt just because they have sent something which hasn't arrived.

I wonder if they would be thinking in the same way if HMRC sent their wages by cheque and they hadn't arrived. Would they still expect to be paid or would they just be happy to accept that HMRC had tried to pay them but their wages had got lost or stolen?

grandma247

Sorry to butt in, I think proof of posting is just that posting it is registered letters that they can tell you when they arrived and have been signed for.

jem16

grandma247 wrote: »

Sorry to butt in, I think proof of posting is just that posting

Exactly - anything could in the letter or nothing as the case may be.

it is registered letters that they can tell you when they arrived and have been signed for.

Recorded Delivery is the term used by the Post Office. As far as I'm aware, HMRC don't use Recorded Delivery.

grandma247

Yes I think you are right about the name (showing my age )
I have never known them use it either. I would think it would be far too expensive nowadays. Anything I have had has always come in the ordinary post.

System

jem16 wrote: »

As to HMRC saying we have proof of posting the cheque and it's deemed to have arrived 2 days later, that is rebuttable and I doubt would stand up in court.

Ah now that's a little different. What has HMRC said so far? Have they just said it was posted or have they told you it's been cashed.

If it's the former, it puts another variable in the mix. If they've not confirmed its been cashed, the problem could also be in the postal system.

If they've just said it's posted, maybe it hasn't been cashed. If it's not been cashed, after some (relatively) straightforward checks they should be able to cancel the original and issue a replacement.

If they say it's been cashed, it shouldn't come down to proof of posting as they should be able to get a copy of the cheque.

jem16

ceiberman wrote: »

Ah now that's a little different. What has HMRC said so far? Have they just said it was posted or have they told you it's been cashed.

They say it's been cashed. My reference to posting was down to comments earlier about issuing the cheque and posting it so HMRC have done their job.

If they say it's been cashed, it shouldn't come down to proof of posting as they should be able to get a copy of the cheque.

Yes which is what we have asked for to see where it's been cashed.

However it's 100% sure it's not into my daughter-in-law's account.

antonic

jem16 wrote: »

They say it's been cashed. My reference to posting was down to comments earlier about issuing the cheque and posting it so HMRC have done their job.



Yes which is what we have asked for to see where it's been cashed.

However it's 100% sure it's not into my daughter-in-law's account.

And for data protection issues they won't tell you into which account it was cashed into, merely the fact that its been cashed and the date it was cashed.

jem16

antonic wrote: »

And for data protection issues they won't tell you into which account it was cashed into, merely the fact that its been cashed and the date it was cashed.

Then what exactly is the point of us asking for photocopies of the cheque?

We already know it's been cashed on the 16th October as HMRC have already told us this.

System

jem16 wrote: »

They say it's been cashed. My reference to posting was down to comments earlier about issuing the cheque and posting it so HMRC have done their job.



Yes which is what we have asked for to see where it's been cashed.

However it's 100% sure it's not into my daughter-in-law's account.

I see. In which case, I'll keep my fingers crossed. Hopefully it'll be something as simple as the money being in the banks suspense account.

jem16

ceiberman wrote: »

Hopefully it'll be something as simple as the money being in the banks suspense account.

Asked that question too at the bank. It's not in any suspense account unless it's one which their bank staff has no access to.

If it's not down to a bank error, as far as we're concerned it's up to HMRC to reissue a cheque and to take it up with their bank as to why one of their cheques has been fraudulently cashed.

Just exactly as it would be my problem if a cheque I had sent to HMRC did not reach their accounts. HMRC would still expect me to pay my tax. That is why we are always encouraged to use a safer method to pay bills or if a cheque must be used to used a traceable form of posting such as Recorded delivery or Special Delivery.