HMRC cheque "stolen" by whom?

jonesMUFCforever

I give up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

System

jem16 wrote: »

So are you saying my daughter-in-law cannot specifically request an electronic transfer despite HMRC website saying:

Where it gets messy is the page you were looking at covers both PAYE and Self-Assessment (SA) repayments. But I can see why anyone would think electronic transfer was possible for PAYE.

SA refunds can be sent via BACS, but not PAYE refunds. There is a reason for the difference but it's quite technical and tbh quite boring.

jimmo

I do think Jones****forever has a point.
The immediate concern surely is that your daughter in law wants her money. That’s the priority for now. Recriminations can come later.
I hope I’ve got this right, but feel free to correct, putting things in chronological order:
May 2013 HMRC issued a repayment cheque (or payable order) in her maiden name. That was some months before she submitted her P85. The cheque has since been cancelled so its water under the bridge from the point of view of getting the repayment but, from the recriminations side of things, why did HMRC make a repayment without a claim and why was it in her maiden name?
Sept 2013 She requested that her repayment be paid to her bank.
Oct 2013 the (new) cheque was cashed.
Nov 2013 her correspondence address was changed to yours.
Whilst I can appreciate your frustration in all this, and obviously being biased, I can’t see what HMRC has done wrong.
Mikeyorks is, as ever, right but just to expand a little, the original computerisation of PAYE (COP) happened a long time ago when cheques were king. Why on earth HMRC failed to build in direct payments to bank accounts in the revamp in 2009 is beyond me but it is a fact.
For PAYE and Claims cases (R40s) HMRC don’t do direct payments. They send cheques to the claimant’s bank as a nominee.
So in this case HMRC appear to have dealt with the claimant’s requests within their framework but something has gone wrong.
By present day standards the HMRC repayment process for PAYE and Claims cases seem positively archaic but, if something has gone wrong it appears that somebody has fraudulently cashed the cheque or her bank have credited the cheque to the wrong account.

ERICS_MUM

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

They do not have to send any refund by electronic method. For all we know the cheque might have been paid into an account she forgot about.

PLEASE GET A COPY AS I HAVE SUGGESTED THIS WILL THEN SOLVE EVERYTHING - GOING ON AND ON AND ON ABOUT THE METHOD OF SENDING THE REFUND IS GOING NOWHERE!!!

exactly right. The info on the back of the cheque will help pinpoint the exact account credited with the money, where it was paid in and determine if fraud (conversion) has occurred.

Get the whereabouts of the money sorted first, then tackle HMRC about the method of payment requested/used if you still feel the need.

CKhalvashi

ERICS_MUM wrote: »

exactly right. The info on the back of the cheque will help pinpoint the exact account credited with the money, where it was paid in and determine if fraud (conversion) has occurred.

Get the whereabouts of the money sorted first, then tackle HMRC about the method of payment requested/used if you still feel the need.

It would be my advice too.

If HMRC owes me money (I think they owe me 61p at the moment), then I ask them to keep it until I do the next SA for this reason

In these circumstances where it has been requested back to you, you need to ask them for a copy off the cheque, and moan at them on a future date IMO.

CK

jem16

jimmo wrote: »

I do think Jones****forever has a point.

I agree he has a point. As I have said my daughter-in-law is asking for that info.

However she is still very worried that HMRC will simply then tell her it's her problem and leave her without her £623.

May 2013 HMRC issued a repayment cheque (or payable order) in her maiden name. That was some months before she submitted her P85. The cheque has since been cancelled so its water under the bridge from the point of view of getting the repayment but, from the recriminations side of things, why did HMRC make a repayment without a claim and why was it in her maiden name?

It was sent with a P800 calculation and presumably was the normal tax year reconciliation. However not like HMRC to be so on the ball with tax refunds. As to why it was in her maiden name, I can only presume that my daughter-in-law forgot to tell them that she had married although strangely enough they had her new address. So we're not quite sure on that one.

Sept 2013 She requested that her repayment be paid to her bank.

This is the main sticking point. At all times she discussed a direct deposit into her bank account. Whilst we can now see that to HMRC, this meant pay by cheque sent through the post, at no point was this made clear. To everyone else in the modern world, direct deposit means electronic transfer.

Oct 2013 the (new) cheque was cashed.
Nov 2013 her correspondence address was changed to yours.
Whilst I can appreciate your frustration in all this, and obviously being biased, I can’t see what HMRC has done wrong.

So it's taken four months with numerous international phone calls to the bank and HMRC, yet my daughter-in-law still is without her £623 and is facing the prospect of HMRC saying it's nothing to do with them as they've sent the cheque. Yet you don't think HMRC has done anything wrong?

By present day standards the HMRC repayment process for PAYE and Claims cases seem positively archaic but,

That's an understatement. However their handling of it doesn't need to follow it surely? Communication is key and that's not happening.

if something has gone wrong it appears that somebody has fraudulently cashed the cheque

In which case HMRC are happy to wash their hands of the whole thing.

or her bank have credited the cheque to the wrong account.

That would seem easier to fix but from Canada may not be so easy.

Jimmo I appreciate your help and reply but it doesn't fill us with a great deal of hope.

jem16

ERICS_MUM wrote: »

exactly right. The info on the back of the cheque will help pinpoint the exact account credited with the money, where it was paid in and determine if fraud (conversion) has occurred.

Get the whereabouts of the money sorted first, then tackle HMRC about the method of payment requested/used if you still feel the need.

We will do.

CKhalvashi wrote: »

It would be my advice too.

If HMRC owes me money (I think they owe me 61p at the moment), then I ask them to keep it until I do the next SA for this reason

In these circumstances where it has been requested back to you, you need to ask them for a copy off the cheque, and moan at them on a future date IMO.

CK

It's a bit difficult to ignore £623 when you're a young couple settling into a new country and trying to deal with red tape from thousands of mile away.

To everyone that replied, we are very grateful for your help and appreciate what you are saying. We will be pursuing where the cheque has been cashed but my son and daughter-in-law just want their money and despite doing everything that HMRC has asked of them, they are still no further forward 4 months later.

jem16

One last question before we send off the letter;

With Christmas mail any letter sent to Cardiff from Glasgow ( as I now have it) will be later arriving. Will it be better to hand it in personally to one of their enquiry centres as the nearest is only minutes away or am I just as well posting it recorded delivery?

It has to go to Cardiff as that's the address on the letter she was sent and asked to reply to.

chrismac1

Recorded delivery. HMRC mail is random, for example the post addressed to 4 or 5 of the Midlands tax offices gets sorted in Wales. I am not making this up!

Because there are piles of mail, and vans driving around the country with these piles, it's not that unusual for hundreds of items of mail to get lost in one go.

If you trust HMRC often enough for long enough you'll come a massive cropper. Pin them down at all opportunities, if you get a chance to put your foot on the throat press hard!

This may sound nasty, but it works. Seize the initiative and keep it!

jem16

chrismac1 wrote: »

Recorded delivery. HMRC mail is random, for example the post addressed to 4 or 5 of the Midlands tax offices gets sorted in Wales. I am not making this up!

Ok will send Recorded Delivery to the Cardiff address.

This may sound nasty, but it works. Seize the initiative and keep it!

We're just not sure how hard to press at the moment.

The person who asked to be informed is an Administrative officer. Really not sure if this is high enough up to get somewhere faster and therefore simply ask for it be investigated or whether to go with complaint now.

My son and daughter-in-law have naturally run out of patience after all of this and want to go in with full guns blazing so to speak.

I'm just wondering if caution is required first.