(solved) UKPC parking invoice - but it's my car park!

4consumerrights

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Well done!

I would now write a letter a bit like this one I suggested for tospig:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64297676#Comment_64297676

This is your moment to insist on your rights as a leaseholder to peaceful enjoyment of your property. I would NOT continue to give implied agreement for UKPC to touch your car because they will be looking to get their own back, perhaps. Remember the tort of harassment is also, nowadays, a crime.

This has already been covered:D;)

FunnyMunny

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Well done!

I would now write a letter a bit like this one I suggested for tospig:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64297676#Comment_64297676

This is your moment to insist on your rights as a leaseholder to peaceful enjoyment of your property. I would NOT continue to give implied agreement for UKPC to touch your car because they will be looking to get their own back, perhaps. Remember the tort of harassment is also, nowadays, a crime.

Thanks Coupon, your example is very helpful.

In fact, I based my letter on your example, but heavily customized it for my particular situation. It certainly gave me a very solid base to work from. :beer:

Having said that, I don't think it had any effect on them and this is why: the second invoice was cancelled, because I showed evidence of displaying the permit. There was no response from UKPC regarding the first invoice, which was only cancelled at the request of the management company, so be warned. This is why I now have to write a nice email to the management company to let them know that err, sorry, I'm not subject to UKPC's parking rules.

I expected it to have no effect on UKPC either, given the shady way that they operate. No, the reason why I wrote it, spelling out chapter and verse exactly where they had breached the BPA rules, is so that I had all the evidence in one convenient place and to show that I'd communicated it to them.

This now helps me enormously with my forthcoming complaint to the BPA, FCA, DVLA and anyone else (suggestions please!) as I can simply refer to it. It would have also helped me should it potentially have gone to court. Yes, I know that everyone here says that "UKPC don't do court", but I'll bet there are times they do that you don't know about, even if it's rare (or that they might start doing so) hence, I have to cover that eventuality, rather than just crossing my fingers and hoping they don't push it that far.

To everyone saying that I shouldn't display the permit:

As far as giving implied consent, I see where you're coming from, but I don't think removing the permit is the clever thing to do, as I will be in for a lot of headaches that I just don't need. I've frankly got better things to do with my life than argue with some dodgy, dirty tricks parking company over a protracted period of time.

Also, the law and the courts are a funny thing and often look at surrounding circumstances rather than just what's signed on a contract, so it's not the be all and end all.

For example, it's been on Watchdog and other places that people who got unexpectedly massive mobile phone bills due to little kids playing with the phone, or roaming charges abroad etc didn't always have to pay them, despite the fact that it was all written into the contract that they signed and the mobile company did nothing wrong. It also applies where it can be shown that a person is "vulnerable" in some way (usually with mental health issues) they can use this to get out of their responsibilites on a properly written and signed contract.

As you can see, there are no absolutes and this is what the court system is there for. Hence, I really don't need something like this to apply to me where I can potentially be nailed for being "difficult" and costing UKPC "unecessary expense" or similar. I'm hardly an expert on the law and don't want this avoidable headache, so won't be taking a chance on this.

Rather than use registration numbers to identify residents' cars, they use a permit. This actually works to my advantage, since I can stick it to any car I want at any time, without having the hassle of updating registration details. As I'll be buying a new car soon, this will be very convenient. There are other situations where this could be convenient too for me, that I'd rather not spell out in public.

I don't think it does imply consent to ticket me. I just have to have a little word with that management agent to make sure they get it. It should be a simple matter of letting UKPC know that they've ticketed a resident on the off chance this happens and having them drop the charge. Similarly, telling the management company should achieve the same thing when UKPC inevitably don't cooperate.

Umkomaas

Yes, I know that everyone here says that "UKPC don't do court", but I'll bet there are times they do that you don't know about, even if it's rare (or that they might start doing so) hence, I have to cover that eventuality, rather than just crossing my fingers and hoping they don't push it that far.

Just to give you some peace of mind on this, for what it's worth, here is the latest information (that I'm aware of) on the PPCs (and the number of cases) who have taken court action in the 12-month period covered.

Have a look at UKPC's record (don't confuse them with names of a similar nature). Whilst this is no guarantee of future performance, it is one indicator perhaps.

HTH

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/179544/response/444525/attach/3/A%20FINAL%20REPLY%20TO%20LEWIS%2085865.doc

FunnyMunny

Thanks, that's really useful. So UKPC don't appear there, that's good.

Reading the disclaimers on that letter though, it's possible that they just haven't shown up on the report due to things like spelling errors, claiming under a different name etc, so this shouldn't be taken as proof that "UKPC don't do court". Also, note the time period which was for one year up to October 2013 so they might have shown up in earlier reports or ones after.

I'd say with the increasing success of POPLA and their systematic refusal to give out the codes in breach of the BPA rules, that they're more likely to get litiguous, not less, as their profits drop.

Again, while it's heartening to see that report, one must still prepare for the eventuality that their case will be the exception where they get sued. Hence, when playing these high stakes games, it's always worth covering all your bases, no matter how slight the chance that you'll come unstuck.

The_Slithy_Tove

FunnyMunny wrote: »

I expected it to have no effect on UKPC either, given the shady way that they operate. No, the reason why I wrote it, spelling out chapter and verse exactly where they had breached the BPA rules, is so that I had all the evidence in one convenient place and to show that I'd communicated it to them.

While your letter may have no effect on UKPC's behaviour, you will have made it quite clear to them (I hope) that they must cease trespassing on your land and your property (i.e. car).

This puts you in a good position to launch your own proceedings against them for aggravated trespass, and to get some money out of them. See my post #4 on this thread, linking to a very useful thread on CAG showing where this was successfully done.

That is really the only way to show these scammers who's boss.

4consumerrights

QUOTE=FunnyMunny;64633785

Annoyingly, the management company didn't actually take my side on the critical fact that my lease makes me exempt from UKPC's terms of parking, saying that should this keep happening (no permit displayed) then they won't be able to get every ticket cancelled. Say whut?! I will be replying to them, not letting them get away with this.

What's annoying is that what started this whole saga off is that UKPC's permit wouldn't stick to the windscreen. In the end, I had to cellotape it to the windscreen, including the backing, which looks unsightly. So this thing was their fault from the start.

[/QUOTE]

FunnyMunny wrote: »

c
To everyone saying that I shouldn't display the permit:

As far as giving implied consent, I see where you're coming from, but I don't think removing the permit is the clever thing to do, as I will be in for a lot of headaches that I just don't need. I've frankly got better things to do with my life than argue with some dodgy, dirty tricks parking company over a protracted period of time.

Rather than use registration numbers to identify residents' cars, they use a permit. This actually works to my advantage, since I can stick it to any car I want at any time, without having the hassle of updating registration details. As I'll be buying a new car soon, this will be very convenient. There are other situations where this could be convenient too for me, that I'd rather not spell out in public.

I don't think it does imply consent to ticket me. I just have to have a little word with that management agent to make sure they get it. It should be a simple matter of letting UKPC know that they've ticketed a resident on the off chance this happens and having them drop the charge. Similarly, telling the management company should achieve the same thing when UKPC inevitably don't cooperate.

FunnyMunny - by continuing to display the permit you are indeed implying that you consent to their rules should for whatever reason they find your car parked without a permit. This also negates somewhat the content of the letters you have previously sent. You have already confirmed that the management company may not authorise cancellation of future parking charges.

You know that the terms in your lease override these trumped up rules that are now being applied by UKPC and the management company and that you lived there for many years before the implementation of a parking company.

You will also no doubt at some point receive a parking charge notice in the future - so will have to go the charade of appealing and getting this charge cancelled. You are well aware of the dirty tricks that these companies use and I have witnessed a car being photographed and issued a parking charge (stuck on driver's window) when there was indeed a valid permit displayed on the windscreen.

UKPC have not done court todate (unless they are taken there themseleves) and a case UKPC v Davey was such a case and Davey won - again being ticketed in his own parking space.

It is up to you how to continue to proceed with this matter and yes, it is true that past performance regarding court cases is no indication of the future - but it is no big deal to defend either (especially in your situation) . For what it is worth and personally knowing your situation, I would definitely be excluding myself from this charade and if another parking charge received, be filing my own claim against UKPC.

Whatever you decide to do though, Good Luck and Best wishes.:)

FunnyMunny

It's been a few months now since this got resolved in my favour so I have an update.

Us residents exercised our Right to Manage a few months ago and kicked out the management company for being useless and ripping us off and I'm glad to say that UKPC went with them. There were a lot of complaints similar to mine about UKPC.

We don't currently have anyone monitoring the car park, but the UKPC signs are still up there, acting as an effective deterrent. We're currently looking for a more reasonable parking company who won't prey on the residents or their visitors. Of course, I no longer keep UKPC's permit in my windscreen.

For the cancelled invoice where I didn't have evidence of showing the permit, I never received a formal cancellation letter from UKPC which would have been nice, but I've not heard from them since either and don't expect to.

Dee140157

I fear your search for a reasonable car parking company may be fruitless! I am not sure such things exist. You only have to look at the number of threads on this forum to see that!

Why not consider setting up your own company and making it a reasonable one?

Guys_Dad

The fair and reasonable PPC that doesn't cost residents a lot and always lets residents, guests etc off any charges can be found next to the holy grail, Lord Lucan, Nessie, the Yeti and the USA Big foot.

They all need to make money and it has to come from somewhere. If they are effective, then no illegals will park (your aim) so who will pay their bill? Just keep the signs as they are and get a resident to clamp their car overnight. That will scare off illegals.

ezerscrooge

If the existing signs are acting as an effective deterrent, then why not leave it at that? No point replacing one set of parasites for another.