(solved) UKPC parking invoice - but it's my car park!

MikeyTen4

Hi FunnyMunny!

Just got my POPLA appeal in, now comes the wait for a reply... you can take a look if you want to, here's my post about it - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64235699#Comment_64235699

FunnyMunny

I have an update... I won!

Yeah, like there was any doubt, hehe.

This invoice was in fact the first of TWO that these charlatans UKPC stuck to my car, for the same reason - allegedly not showing a permit "authorizing" me to park in my own space, lol.

The second one got as far as their glorious Debt Recovery Plus cronies and that boneheaded collections manager Ian Grantham, who was extremely unreasonable, unprofessional and rude every step of the way - yeah I'm naming and shaming you. Deal with it.

Funny thing was that the UKPC website refused to show the pictures, giving an error. I maintained the whole time that my permit was in fact showing and that UKPC couldn't prove that it wasn't, so had no basis for continuing to chase for the money.

That's when he sent me a series of pictures from UKPC and lo and behold one of them showed my permit! It was in the centre console of the car (I'd forgotten to put it on the dashboard so shoot me) clearly visible from any side window and even the rear one if one looked carefully.

Of course that wasn't good enough for our precious Ian, claiming it "wasn't clear" and that I should seek legal advice if this and my other arguments were my defence. Note that he refused to refer the debt back to UKPC like he's supposed to, since UKPC never responded to my initial dispute letter and just sent me straight to debt recovery.

The first invoice was stll in dispute with UKPC and they had written to me a second rejection letter after my response to their 28-day chase letter. Interestigly, they had reduced the charge from £100 back down to £60. Got a weak case much, perhaps?

UKPC had seriously breached the BPA Code of Practice in several places over this fiasco, with the main one being the refusal to offer POPLA at any stage when I demanded it, with template rejection letters that make no mention of it. Be warned, these barstewards fight dirty like this, no doubt because they know a POPLA appeal means 100% win for the victim nowadays.

Also, I learned on reading the BPA CoP, that invoices must show a "reasonable time" between seeing the car and issuing the invoice. Both invoices had a time difference of zero. Not reasonable and an instant void. Be sure to use this to nail them with in your POPLA defence, people (assuming you ever get the POPLA code off them).

This effing saga had gone on for months now and UKPC and DRP were showing no sign of letting up, so in January I sent them and DRP a very stiff cease and desist letter, explaining exactly why I'm exempt from their parking terms and pointing out their many breaches of the BPA CoP, plus highlighting the permit I showed.

I really didn't mince my words I can tell you and accused both parties of employing shady tactics to extort payment through harassment with the pretext of "unauthorized parking". I told them I was going to complain about them to the management company and the BPA.

At the same time, I also complained about them to the management company, including the cease and desist letter in my complaint. The BPA complaint is still in the works at this time. Wanna pay me off, UKPC?

A few days later I receive a template cancellation letter for the invoice that had the permit showing, but nothing for the other invoice. Then yesterday I get an email from the management company that they had both invoices cancelled for me. Finally this monkey is off my back. It took ages and a lot of time and effort, but I can tell you every bit of it was worth it. Remember, it's the winning that counts, not the taking part.

I made some mistakes in the beginning due to my ignorance in dealing with such situations, but I know what to do now. In hindsight, I should have asked the management company to cancel the invoices right at the beginning.

Annoyingly, the management company didn't actually take my side on the critical fact that my lease makes me exempt from UKPC's terms of parking, saying that should this keep happening (no permit displayed) then they won't be able to get every ticket cancelled. Say whut?! I will be replying to them, not letting them get away with this.

What's annoying is that what started this whole saga off is that UKPC's permit wouldn't stick to the windscreen. In the end, I had to cellotape it to the windscreen, including the backing, which looks unsightly. So this thing was their fault from the start.

Finally, I'd like to give a big thanks and respect to all of you who helped me out with this. Also, to all the people who have created those invaluable FAQ threads helping us newbies to beat scum like this.

In the beginning, I knew I'd beat UKPC, but I didn't really know how to go about it and felt very frustrated and stressed out, but you all made a big, big difference. Thankyou. :beer:

fisherjim

Well done you have made my day!

Anyone that stuffs scummy UKPC, and the bunch of scamming idiots at DR+ is a hero in my eyes!
:beer:

4consumerrights

FunnyMunny wrote: »

Annoyingly, the management company didn't actually take my side on the critical fact that my lease makes me exempt from UKPC's terms of parking, saying that should this keep happening (no permit displayed) then they won't be able to get every ticket cancelled. Say whut?! I will be replying to them, not letting them get away with this.


:beer:

Well done FunnyMunny!

I do hope that you will not play UKPC's silly charade of displaying the permit - remember the management company is also on a 10% kickback here. Your lease rights trump this - and should you receive another pathetic invoice - then as per that letter you sent
you would be entitled to take UKPC to court.

You should write a formal letter now to the management company excluding yourself from the scheme

FunnyMunny

4consumerrights, I have always displayed the permit and I don't have a problem doing so (I just wish it would stick properly).

It's UKPC's way of telling who's a resident and who's not and I don't have a problem with cooperating. The only problem is the way they tried to extort money from me when they thought I wasn't displaying it. That makes the whole difference between UKPC being an asset or a parasite. Think about it, I want them to harass and give a headache to those people who treat our car park as a free public car park.

Also, if I don't display it, I'll have them on my back again for an increasing number of invoices, which seems like a pointless headache to me.

I may see if I can get a solicitor involved in looking at my lease and confirming in a solidly legal way ie with all the proper legal references and signed off by them, that I don't need UKPC's effing permission to park here.

If I can do this, then I'll consider going after them with an invoice (nice big fat one) for compensation for the harassment and stress that they caused me over an extended period of time. They will of course, first ignore it and then fight it, but I'm happy to take them to the small claims court over it, which I'd very likely win.

Oh and perhaps get them booted out of my car park. That would be the best of all.

4consumerrights

You are missing the point!

UKPC do not have the right to inspect who is able to park where you live - they have no proprietary interest in the land nor do the managing agents have the right to trump your lease.

What will happen when new permits are issued - and maybe you do not receive one in time? The fact that they are not designed to "stick" on the windscreen is all part and parcel of how they entrap those with genuine rights to park.

The forum is inundated with people complaining they have received a parking charge in their private residence - I have yet to see a case where it has been issued for a "trespasser" - in all cases it is the resident/owner or a bonefide visitor who have legal rights to park.

A far simpler solution for the managing agents where you live would be to install a barrier at the car park entrance - with a contolled entry system which could be accessed by residents.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

FWIW, small claims are easy peasy and are pretty much risk free, you pay a fee and as long as you pay by the rules, you do not risk getting costs against you. Companies tend either not to turn up, because the cost of sending a solicitor exceeds the claim, so you get a default decision, or if they know they will lose, they will make you an offer. I got £1000 out of Thomsons Holidays when they middle us on various aspects of a holiday. Initially they denied, then offered £200. It was the small claim that got their legal department moving. At £600 they thought I would fold, I was after £1500, so the hassle of the hearing seemed not to be worth £500.

If you do go to a hearing, basically you sit round a table and have a chat about it.

If you win and they don't pay, you really can send the bailiffs round after them, proper revenge!

4consumerrights

I've had similar experiences with holiday companies - and managed to claim compensation - though one went into liquidation before full settlement was agreed, we managed to bank some compensation.

Also managed to claim a suitable refund from Bakers Dolphin for breach of contract where they failed to fulfill extended clauses of the holiday - they paid without the need for court as a result of letters written.

Coupon-mad

Well done!

I would now write a letter a bit like this one I suggested for tospig:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64297676#Comment_64297676

This is your moment to insist on your rights as a leaseholder to peaceful enjoyment of your property. I would NOT continue to give implied agreement for UKPC to touch your car because they will be looking to get their own back, perhaps. Remember the tort of harassment is also, nowadays, a crime.

Fergie76

4consumerrights wrote: »

Well done FunnyMunny!

I do hope that you will not play UKPC's silly charade of displaying the permit - remember the management company is also on a 10% kickback here. Your lease rights trump this - and should you receive another pathetic invoice - then as per that letter you sent
you would be entitled to take UKPC to court.

You should write a formal letter now to the management company excluding yourself from the scheme

Definitely follow this advice. By displaying the permit, they could argue that you are playing the game and therefore know the consequence of not following their rules.

Make easy for yourself and take yourself out the game.