Sinn Fein lord mayor at Belfast Armistice Day ceremony

GlynD

duggan1 wrote: »

It's the difficulty of distinguishing geographical terms from political ones. Someone could equally argue that a resident of Cork is 'British' as they live in the 'British Isles', although that term is in some dispute IIRC.

Personally, I identify primarily with being British (politically) but do not get offended if someone refers to me as Irish.

As for the Team GB stuff, it's always worth remembering that international sport is not politically representative. The Olympians weren't directly representing the UK. They represent the UK Olumpic Committee. It's a small and pedantic point but I'm in a pedantic mood eating my stew

I take your points. I used to have a thing about being called Irish but 9 years in the British army knocked it out of me. We were taught to be proud of our Irish heritage, that it was this very thing which made us special, different and better than anyone else.

Just don't let anyone call me Paddy - that gets right up my left nostril so far..................oooooh, I could peel a banana.

emmett123

Cotta wrote: »

Emmett - Did you really joing a money saving website just to discuss politics? I have a feeling you're just trolling in some attempt to discredit Republicans. Out of your 47 posts at least 40 relate to politics - I don't think this is the site for you.

I do post in the threads that relate to politics, nor do i change the topics on which those threads relate.

emmett123

Cotta wrote: »

That's fair enough but perhaps the debate would be better served via PM or on Slugger O'Toole? For me it's a debate we've had too often on here with the same outcomes.

I take your point about Slugger O Toole, but i get the impression that its posters are professional politicos and party advisers etc and actually dont have any concept of how ordinary people levels, i.e that its ivory towers politics.

emmett123

GlynD wrote: »

I have voted for the SDLP in the past. I hear what you're saying too but Emmett has admitted to being militant whereas I am constantly reminding him I'm not even though he keeps telling me I'm a lair.

Oh and no offence but Northern Ireland is British. Part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. If you have a British passport, as I have in the past it says beside "nationality" - British Citizen. In an earlier passport I have it says "British Subject" but they changed that some years ago now. We're no longer subjects it seems.

But British we are. Our assembly answers to Westminster, our block grant is from Westminster, our flag is the British flag. We are democratically British too. Isn't that what all the fuss has been about?

Ok it might change, I grant you that, and I've said before if it does I will then be a loyal citizen of Ireland. I do expect my British identity to be preserved in some way and my British pensions but I've got no problem with being Irish. Nor have I any problem with any citizen in Northern Ireland claiming Irish citizenship now. They're still entitled to the protection of the British state under the 1948 Anglo Irish Agreement and rightly so. Ours is an unusual situation and we should do everything we can to make it work for everyone.

The big question for me is: if I can be that liberal, why can't everyone else? (even if I do shoot prisoners )

in the hypothetical United Ireland you mention, you would want your British Identity to be preserved. What kind of thing do you have in mind?

I am not a militant, by the way.

GlynD

emmett123 wrote: »

in the hypothetical United Ireland you mention, you would want your British Identity to be preserved. What kind of thing do you have in mind?

I am not a militant, by the way.

The only thing I'd be bothered about is keeping my British pensions. I would venture that citizenship would be important for some people too in a reversal of the "claiming Irish citizenship" which is currently allowed.

Ok you're not a militant. I accept that. Perhaps it's just that you're too good at playing Devil's Advocate. :cool:

For the record, I am not a militant either.

emmett123

GlynD wrote: »

The only thing I'd be bothered about is keeping my British pensions. I would venture that citizenship would be important for some people too in a reversal of the "claiming Irish citizenship" which is currently allowed.

Ok you're not a militant. I accept that. Perhaps it's just that you're too good at playing Devil's Advocate. :cool:

For the record, I am not a militant either.

In a united Ireland could we remove all the british war memorials in the northern 6 counties or would you insist on them staying as part recognition of your British identity?

GlynD

emmett123 wrote: »

In a united Ireland could we remove all the british war memorials in the northern 6 counties or would you insist on them staying as part recognition of your British identity?

I'm sorry to answer your question so obliquely and with another question but given that successive governments in the south since 1922 have retained all British War Memorials and in fact encourage their upkeep and restoration (where necessary) why would you consider such an act would be necessary?

I know quite a bit about this btw because I was involved in the replacement of a memorial in Dublin to a British soldier killed during the Rising. We even had police protection for the re-dedication service. The original memorial was accepted by the National Museum as part of their Irish Soldier Through the Ages, permanent exhibition.

Similarly when the South Irish Horse guidon was stolen from St Pat's in Dublin the dean and the corporation welcomed a replacement provided by the North Irish Horse and permitted a parade to take place in full "greens" (ceremonial Irish Horse uniform).

I also have in my possession a copy of a thesis by an officer from the IDF who made remembrance and in particular remembrance of WW1 his subject for his staff college exams in Phoenix Park HQ.

Do you see what I'm trying to say here? That the removal of British war memorials would be out of step with current Oireachtas policy. Why would you feel this should change or is your question rhetorical?

duggan1

emmett123 wrote: »

in the hypothetical United Ireland you mention, you would want your British Identity to be preserved. What kind of thing do you have in mind?

I would be more interested to hear how the Irish govt would intend to remove British identity from the best part of a million people who currently identify as such, in a hypothetical United Ireland.

It's pie in the sky, and Sinn Fein know it is, and if they ever need to wind up the flashpoint loyalists all they have to do is mention it. Works like a charm. Discussion about it is at the end of a long list of issues that need to be resolved before anyone can even think about it.

We all know of the recent polls regarding identity etc in the North but I'm not aware of any in the South regarding future reunification. Might be interesting to know how the average Irish voter/taxpayer would feel about it.

shaz77_2

GlynD wrote: »

I'm sorry to answer your question so obliquely and with another question but given that successive governments in the south since 1922 have retained all British War Memorials and in fact encourage their upkeep and restoration (where necessary) why would you consider such an act would be necessary?

I know quite a bit about this btw because I was involved in the replacement of a memorial in Dublin to a British soldier killed during the Rising. We even had police protection for the re-dedication service. The original memorial was accepted by the National Museum as part of their Irish Soldier Through the Ages, permanent exhibition.

Similarly when the South Irish Horse guidon was stolen from St Pat's in Dublin the dean and the corporation welcomed a replacement provided by the North Irish Horse and permitted a parade to take place in full "greens" (ceremonial Irish Horse uniform).

I also have in my possession a copy of a thesis by an officer from the IDF who made remembrance and in particular remembrance of WW1 his subject for his staff college exams in Phoenix Park HQ.

Do you see what I'm trying to say here? That the removal of British war memorials would be out of step with current Oireachtas policy. Why would you feel this policy should change or is your question rhetorical?

For once I agree with you.

GlynD

duggan1 wrote: »

I would be more interested to hear how the Irish govt would intend to remove British identity from the best part of a million people who currently identify as such, in a hypothetical United Ireland.

It's pie in the sky, and Sinn Fein know it is, and if they ever need to wind up the flashpoint loyalists all they have to do is mention it. Works like a charm. Discussion about it is at the end of a long list of issues that need to be resolved before anyone can even think about it.

We all know of the recent polls regarding identity etc in the North but I'm not aware of any in the South regarding future reunification. Might be interesting to know how the average Irish voter/taxpayer would feel about it.

I know that the Oireachtas has stated unequivocally that they could not afford reunification. That probably just means that the block grant would continue, at least in part for a number of years until GDP from the north was able to compensate for the costs of absorbing the six counties.