Sinn Fein lord mayor at Belfast Armistice Day ceremony

warmhands.coldheart

Cotta wrote: »

Sorry Golden, as uncomfortable as you and I are with the abbreviation "UVF" due to it being hijacked by terrorists in latter years the original young boys made too huge of a sacrifice to be airbrushed from history.

Golden_Anemone wrote: »

That's exactly the sort of nonsense republicans use to justify their distasteful memorials to their so called war dead.

Exactly the reasons Northern Ireland is such a complicated little country. Nothings ever straight forward or simple......

Prothet_of_Doom

As my mother said to me, as a child, when I questioned what going on in NI, "I'd bang their bloody heads together. We are all Gods children, and none of them have any right to do what they do. We must pray that they all see sense and start to forgive"

Ironic that she'd inflict minor violence on them to make them see the error of thier ways, but hey that's Christians for you.

Cotta

I'm not arguing for or against anybody's rights and I'm very uncomfortable with the "UVF" as an organisation but how do we remember these people who died at the Somme, thousands of whom were from the original UVF?

tara747

Re the original story - this is a postive step forward, more please!!!

Prothet_of_Doom wrote: »

As my mother said to me, as a child, when I questioned what going on in NI, "I'd bang their bloody heads together. We are all Gods children, and none of them have any right to do what they do. We must pray that they all see sense and start to forgive"

Ironic that she'd inflict minor violence on them to make them see the error of thier ways, but hey that's Christians for you.

Your mother should have been in charge - well said that woman!!! :T

Cotta wrote: »

I'm not arguing for or against anybody's rights and I'm very uncomfortable with the "UVF" as an organisation but how do we remember these people who died at the Somme, thousands of whom were from the original UVF?

Couldn't all who died at the Somme be remembered together? I'm sure that others who died were members of other organisations, does each one have to have its own ceremony?

Cotta

tara747 wrote: »

Couldn't all who died at the Somme be remembered together? I'm sure that others who died were members of other organisations, does each one have to have its own ceremony?

As far as I know they do have their own ceremonies.

GlynD

emmett123 wrote: »

Just waiting now for a Unionist mayor to lay a wreath of lillies to the men who died fighting for Ireland's freedom.

I agree but in my opinion this would have to be done in Dublin initially. The men who died in these campaigns represent the Irish state, not the British one.

I have said to you before now however and I repeat it again now: I see no reason why a war memorial couldn't be established in the north in a suitable area; for republican dead. If this act of remembrance was done in a similar, dignified way, to the British dead then I don't see how anyone could have valid objections, although I'm positive there would be some from certain quarters.

If it was done properly you could see unionist Lord Mayors laying wreaths of poppies or lillies at republican memorials. It's a big hurdle to overcome or as MMG would say "a big ask" but it's conceivable and in my lifetime.

GlynD

tara747 wrote: »

Re the original story - this is a postive step forward, more please!!!

Your mother should have been in charge - well said that woman!!! :T

Couldn't all who died at the Somme be remembered together? I'm sure that others who died were members of other organisations, does each one have to have its own ceremony?

First World War battles were of such size and magnitude involving so many hundreds of thousands of men that different regions of what was then the UK and Empire deem it necessary to hold separate ceremonies of remembrance as well as observing the main commemoration.

Ireland alone raised three infantry divisions. At the Somme was the 16th (largely the Irish Volunteers) and the 36th (largely the Ulster Volunteers). In addition there was the 10th Division who fought mainly in Gallipoli and Palestine. They too had a high proportion of the Irish Volunteers but not as well subscribed as the 16th.

In addition there was the cavalry. Ireland raised more cavalry, pro rata, than any other area in the UK. They weren't lumped together as a single Irish cavalry division however, but rather dispersed (as was normal practice) in the cavalry divisions of the various theatres of war. It was the 4th Royal Irish Dragoons who actually fired the first British shot of the war. Trust us to start the fight eh? As well as the 4th Dragoons though you had the 5th Royal Irish Lancers, the 6th Inniskilling Dragoon Guards, the 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars, the North Irish Horse and the South Irish Horse. (I think that's them all).

Then there was the Royal Irish Artillery and even after mentioning all that I'm still leaving many out.

Although all of this was 100 years ago these Irish regiments are either still in existence (sometimes in a new name form) or represented by Old Comrade's Associations such as the Combined Irish Regiments OCA and these regiments and organisations do their best to keep the memory of WW1 alive in the hearts of Irishmen and women.

The Dail missed the boat for many years because it wasn't a popular cause but they're on board now and I was actually in contact with a member of the IDF's officer corps who wrote his thesis for Staff College on the forthcoming commemorations in the south and took opinions from a wide range of us Wild Geese. I have his report somewhere if you'd like to have a look at it. It displays a range of opinions on the various options for commemoriation in the Republic for 2014-2018.

shaz77_2

GlynD wrote: »

I have said to you before now however and I repeat it again now: I see no reason why a war memorial couldn't be established in the north in a suitable area; for republican dead.

I would oppose any memorials to the IRA.

GlynD

shaz77 wrote: »

I would oppose any memorials to the IRA.

I didn't say for the IRA. I said "republican dead". I also said some people would object and in you stroll.

I put it to you that what you have to bear in mind is that some families will have pride in what their sons or daughters did. You might find that reprehensible, as so many will, but if such a memorial were to be conceived in a dignified and acceptable fashion it would at least provide a place for republican families to remember their own.

It's normal when conflict ends to allow both sides the opportunity to remember the fallen. I know we don't have any memorials to Nazis but we do have proper CWGC headstones for them in graveyards and I would suggest that, in our peculiar situation, more could be achieved by supporting a republican garden of remembrance with a memorial, than by opposing it.

shaz77_2

GlynD wrote: »

I didn't say for the IRA. I said "republican dead". I also said some people would object and in you stroll.

I put it to you that what you have to bear in mind is that some families will have pride in what their sons or daughters did. You might find that reprehensible, as so many will, but if such a memorial were to be conceived in a dignified and acceptable fashion it would at least provide a place for republican families to remember their own.

It's normal when conflict ends to allow both sides the opportunity to remember the fallen. I know we don't have any memorials to Nazis but we do have proper CWGC headstones for them in graveyards and I would suggest that, in our peculiar situation, more could be achieved by supporting a republican garden of remembrance with a memorial, than by opposing it.

That's actually a great idea, we could also have memorials for Jimmy Saville and Harold Shipman too.